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Synopsis :: Most people think of a psychopath (i.e., sociopath) as a serial killer such as Jeffrey Dahmer, or the movie character Hannibal Lector. Think again. Only the worst ~5% of psychopaths are incarcerated, but they account for about 20% of the prison population, and about 80% of all heinous crimes. Where are the other ~95% of the psychopaths? Living along side us in society, and at all social levels.
Even the White House isn’t immune — remember all the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? We invaded Iraq because they were one of the Axis of Evil countries (per G.W. Bush), and harboring terrorists. In fact, Saddam Hussein hated the Taliban and kept them out of Iraq.
It has been estimated that 5-20% of the world’s population are sociopaths (i.e., afflicted with ASPD, APD, NPD, etc.) — and some estimates are higher. There are levels to the disorder … only a small percentage resort to violence. The others ‘kill’ their victims in another way.
Country-of-Liars made its inaugural web debut with little fanfare in August 2009. Instead of writing a notebook journal, 
I decided to use the web. To my complete surprise, this web site began to appear on Google’s page one results in less than three months.
If you have no experience with a psychopath (a.k.a., sociopath), especially as a first-hand targeted victim, then chances are slim that this site will be believable to you. But if you can trust that this is nothing but truth, you will likely begin to understand what evil truly is — and the many charming faces it takes.
Since August 2009, I have published over 50 relatively long posts of my life experiences, and have many more that are unfinished. But in that same period of time, this same site has accumulated over 500 comments to those posts. I do my very best to communicate with each of those anonymous individuals who have discovered that they are potentially trapped in a similar situation. And “trapped” is a very key word.
A sociopath’s true personality is one of a skilled, maliciously evil, emotion-free, narcissistic monster. But don’t try looking for these monsters out in the public, because they use what’s called a persona — a fake personality — to blend in with the rest of us. You can even say they are very talented actors. And these psychopaths are very real and around us everyday. You may work with some, you may work for one, you may attend religious service with a few, and you may live with one.
Some are so outwardly charming, that they blend in way too well. And statistically speaking, you’ve known a few throughout your life. If they do not sense you present a threat to their secret lies, they will likely leave you alone. You will think they are some of the nicest people you know. But they are just the opposite.
Even if from their own paranoia — nothing you did — they determine that you now know their secret life, your life will never be the same. Since they do not want anyone to listen to you, they begin what I call offensive-revenge, and that usually begins with character assassination — something you may not even know about for years. When you find out, it will be too late.
Like I said, if you have no experience as a sociopath’s target, you probably won’t believe it. The only people who seem to believe it are those who have been maliciously targeted and sabotaged themselves.
My name is Larry. I accidentally found out too much about one specific member of my family. The result was that my character has been completely destroyed.
Reader Quotes
With over 500 comments on this site, I’ve listed below some short excerpts from readers. Some of their comments are longer than my original posts. I attempt to reply to all the comments, though I’m falling a bit behind.
“…you are such a great and helpful read.” — Pravacee
“Thank you Larry. I am so glad I discovered you. I’ve been tearing my hair out.” — Joanna
“This is brave! I’m thankful!” — Kris
“Thanks so much for writing your stories – it’s made me realize that I am not alone and that it’s okay for me to have a life.” — Deborah
“I may never really experience love now, thanks to that [six-month relationship with a sociopath].”
— Louis, PhD Student in Clinical Psychology“Larry I’m in awe of you. I don’t know how you stayed so calm.” — Carolyn
“Your insights are brilliant!” — Donna
“… it’s EXACTLY like you said – when you notice character assassination, it’s already way too late.” — Yami
“I am so glad to have found this site. I have perused many sites and they just don’t seem to get it.” — Doug
“You should have been a psychologist.” — Carol
“I started reading your blog as I wanted to understand my sociopathic boss better and wanted to thank you for your eloquent account of what happened to you … Your ‘toilet paper’ analogy is very apt … Well done!” — Maria
“I stumbled upon your blog when trying to find a chat room about sociopaths. I was riveted and read everything …” — Cathy F
“… every last word you just said is EXACTLY what I am experiencing. — Dawn
“I wish you would write a book so that people who can’t think for themselves (and I agree with your assessment on that subject entirely) can have the opportunity of learning about these sharks among us.” — Carolyn
“Julie sounds disturbingly similar to my ex.” — Isaac S
“Thanks, Larry. And thanks for this blog. When I was at my wits end with my sociopath siblings, just understanding what they were, helped me to get through the ordeal … — Karen
“Please continue updating this … I just recently stumbled upon this site and am enthralled by your story.” — Kaitlyn
“I love this site, it’s very helpful.” — Isabel
“I am a health professional and treat people for mental illness … and had always thought that sociopathy was something that affected people on a more grand scale, i.e the lies of Bush that got us embroiled in an invasion of Iraq that killed thousands of innocent people … I have to now say that though it all may be relative, the acute pain caused by such poisonous character assassination is very real.” — Dee
“That was so insightful! Thanks to your blog, I am sure I will tell the truth to my children.” — Katie
“Many thanks for responding to my question! I find your website very helpful and informative.” — Donna
“Your family situation sounds so identical to mine. Your term of Indirect Homicide is so true that it actually took my breath away when I read it.” — Cherie J
“Great post Larry.” — Doug
“The more I read and think about the sociopaths in my life, the more I’m convinced that genetics plays a much larger role than people realize or are willing to accept.” — Steph
“Larry, you sound like a modern day Sherlock Homes, and extremely level-headed.” — Emily
“OMG … why am I just now finding this site? If only I had read this at the beginning of my nightmare.” — Pravacee
“Thank you for this website! I guess I will not write my proposed book on sociopaths.” — Steve
“Please … where is the rest of the story!” [since completed] — Joanne
“The information I see on this site is wonderful and is helpful to me. I actually wish that I had come across it sooner.” — Louis
“Larry, Thanks. I don’t think anyone else understands.” — Freddy F.
“Larry, you are absolutely right about these types gaining disciples.” — Phillip
“Wow, am I glad I found this website today.” — Spookietoo
“You do a very good job of explaining how these people work. Thank you. It is very difficult for anyone who has not lived through this to understand.” — Daughter in Law
“Thank you so much for this article.” — Anonymous
Thank you to all those who comment!
July 9th, 2010 at 12:52
I too am dealing with a family of sociopaths and narcissists.
It’s me against my x-husband, his Mom, his Dad, his Aunt and numerous others. They are trying to take my Daughter away just to get back at me. They lied, set me up, mentally abused me for almost 8 years. I know how it is.
You gotta stay strong and firm and NEVER give up no matter how many times you get knocked down…..and you will get knocked down because they are able to make people who are on your side one day, to turn on you the next and again, you have to not stop and just keep showing who you are and what your REALLY about.
It’s an EXHAUSTING battle, but in the end, the web of lies WILL unfold. I have trial July 21st, If I dont win, then they are paying people off. Please everyone pray for me. Anyone on here that has dealt with these kind of people know how it is.
Thank you
July 9th, 2010 at 13:01
And here is A LOT of the reason I think sociopaths become the way they are. I do believe half is genetics and I think the other half is definitely your up-bringing and one’s status in society.
My x-husband was ALWAYS the best … the first grandchild, the best in football, prom king, owned biggest commodity firm, etc. … then when he lost everything, he lost his mind. They can’t take not being the best or not being in control. His Parents never taught him right from wrong.
HE WAS NEVER WRONG….it was EVERYONE else’s fault. Yeah….always everyone else. And no, they can’t be fixed, yet, because they will NEVER admit there is something wrong. I am going to school to be a compounding pharmacist and my goal is to come up with a drug that can help these types of people.
They are detrimental to society and life ruiner’s or worse…..SO, I think the gov’t has to put this type of personality disorder on the top of their list, they are every bit as harmful as psychopaths. Just like someone who is bi-polar and gets baker acted, I think they should have laws for people like this to be institutionalized and get the meds they need.
There would be less crime, less lives ruined, etc…Its not a coincidence that a large % of prison inmates are sociopaths. They need rehabs and programs, because they are damaging people, society, etc… This is a topic that needs to be put up in the ranks on the FBI list. They need to know more about these kinds of people.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:20
ChristineE, you are so right. People in power, those who have the authority to DO something, need to be woken up to the dangers of these “people.” Just because they choose to con people (for power, money or sex – that’s really all that seems to make these parasites tick) instead of actually going out and robbing banks doesn’t make them any less dangerous to society as a whole.
If the sociopath/narcissist “gene” (if there is such a thing) were removed from the human DNA, can you imagine how much better this world would be?!!
August 15th, 2010 at 03:58
I was married to my husband for 23 years and knew nothing, he was so smooth until 2006 when I became terribly ill.
The man who was a Christian Conservative, Deacon, Teacher at Church and never cussed, suddenly became a raving lunatic. He was mentally and verbally cruel however had he not left I would never have known it.
Ok, so he ripped myself, the kids and my parents off financially and my parents are also paying for the divorce (and we realize he planned it). I now know that he has been lying to me since 1986.
Did he plan this from the very beginning? Do they do that? Is he liable to get more dangerous once he is served the Divorce decree?
Thank you~Magenta
August 15th, 2010 at 04:19
Welcome Magenta,
No matter how many times I read a story such as yours, I will still feel the pain — pain from 20 years ago, as well as 3 weeks ago. The damage that is done, as in destroying someone’s character, can never be undone.
There’s no way to know what he was planning, but it’s certainly not impossible. Don’t take any chances. You and your kids (and your folks) should never think it can never happen to us. Whatever “it” may be, it certainly won’t be pleasant.
If you feel physically threatened, then contact your local women’s shelters, the police, the court house, and ask lots of questions. If you feel threatened, then your folks are in the same boat. You may need to get a restraining order, but even with that, don’t take any chances.
I have no idea what is going on in your husband’s mind, nor do you. These are my opinions. Get more. Protect yourself, your kids, and your folks. Change the locks on your home.
“Unpredictable” is one word that describes my ex-wife, and you should understand how quickly things can change.
Be careful.
Larry
August 18th, 2010 at 20:59
Help.
I spent 5 years almost everyday with my brother’s wife. They just had a baby. I started a business with her, worked my butt off for low pay, even as sales sky rocketed, she convinced me I was getting paid dirt for better of the company. Meanwhile I was away from my kids for 10-12 hour days getting paid dirt for designing and developing the product we sold. I started to feel like I was going crazy but finally felt so taken advantage of after 4 years, I left.
I just felt in my gut something was very wrong. She seemed obsessed with me, wanted to be my best friend, wanted to know so much about me, wanted to travel with me, etc. I woke up one day feeling as if the floor underneath me was taken. My parents were so upset with her for treating me like garbage and being manipulative. I tired to have a fair separation happen but she felt she owned all of the work and all of the business. My Dad tried to speak and help me get out. This did not happen. I lost everything.
My Dad also got a long letter describing my character, insulting me, telling them I did not do much or deserve any part of the biz, etc. I can’t forgive this and feel she has shown zero guilt since she wrote this awful letter. Through that time she had a baby and now my parents are forgiving her, sort of, hanging out with her, having her visit for a few days, like nothing happened. They are ignoring the entire event. But I find myself paranoid that she will manipulate and somehow convince them that I am crazy.
I do get very emotional and upset but she uses anything to have something to hold against me. It is very scary and I fear losing my relationship with my parents because I want to run very very far away from her.
Please help.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:16
Hello Christine E,
Welcome! I hope you did OK with your trial. Unfortunately, a sociopath in the courtroom can be truly frightening. It can provide clear evidence as to the power they wield.
Regarding your comments above, my apologies for being so late in responding. I must disagree with you about the cause(s) of Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD), as being half genetics, and half up-bringing. I state, with the utmost certainty, that it is all genetic, and would never occur from up-bringing only.
Keep in mind that one of your ex-husband’s parents, at least one, carried the gene, and most likely, suffered from the disorder. And at least one of his grandparents, a parent of his parent that gave him the gene, also was positive for the disorder.
When you say “up-bringing” you are likely referring to the parent that carried the gene, and so on. You even state that his parents did not parent him well. That’s because they, too — or at least one — was positive with APD.
I believe my own family provides the evidence to prove it’s caused entirely by the genetic disorder. I was physically and emotionally abused, yet I was the only one in my generation that did not get it.
Yet, I gave it to my first daughter — hence, I did carry it. I have not been able to find any incident of her mother, or her mother’s family with the bad gene.
I was the only child that my dad treated differently than the others, the others being essentially spoiled. If it were based on up-bringing due to being spoiled, the population of this planet would have imploded generations ago.
Also, it does not require both elements to be present to provide a positive diagnosis of APD, how ever the up-bringing element would be defined. What you are saying is that it requires two very different elements — parental up-bringing and a defective gene — before a positive diagnosis can be reached. I believe if that theory were indeed true, this would be a much smaller problem, as it would be based on a percentage of chance.
I think I rest my case.
September 7th, 2010 at 22:06
I study and practice eastern philosophy, so I don’t categorize things so much from a genetic or purely physical point of view…… I believe that the level of consciousness affects the genetic structure. If a person lowers their consciousness, then even the cells which have consciousness are affected in an abnormal way. So, first spiritual, then physical.
I have a mildly sociopathic mother, but she had her good points which didn’t overshadow the destructive aspect. But my mother’s children however are all very good, honest, generous and helpful people. My sister is the only person I’ve ever met who I would classify as a saint..never said a bad word about anyone ever till she died that I’m aware of. I have no idea how she came out of my mother’s womb.
But I do have to say this…my oldest brother became my mother’s disciple, and although he is basically a good person he played that role to save his own skin. Sad, that someone would choose loyalty to someone doing wrong over loyalty to their small twin brothers. I guess my childhood has given me sociopathdar so I usually sniff them out, and when they sense they are exposed by me, I catch hell. It’s been a life long pattern.
Before my sister died, she said I’d alway have this problem because I’m bright in that particular way, and she’s been right.
September 19th, 2010 at 11:50
I’ve been doing a lot of research on sociopathic behaviour recently, having just had to leave my home due to my sociopathic upstairs neighbour, who I befriended (feel REALLY stupid about that now!). Through this research, I’ve started to wonder if my siblings are sociopathic, and if my mother was.
I haven’t had anything to do with my brothers for years, although if they want a favour, they still have the audacity to ask, via my father, for me to do whatever it is they need doing. Fine by me, as long as I don’t have to deal with them.
Recently though, I’ve noticed some FB friends have stopped communicating with me, and funnily enough, they have my brothers on their lists. So even after all these years, and zero communication, I’m wondering if they’re whispering their poisonous lies all over again. Time will tell, I suppose. I mean, why on earth do they need the people I was at school with, people they never even met, on their friends lists in the first place?
And how did they get in touch? By going through my friends list, and picking out people from it?
What I find really scary though is the thought that this is hereditary. I want to have children, but just because it skipped me, will they be unaffected too? This has huge implications for anyone it touches. The word evil should be swapped in te dictionary for the word sociopathic. It’s poison.
Thank you for this site though, interesting reading so far, and it’s opened my eyes even further!
September 20th, 2010 at 03:49
Welcome Louise,
Thank you for your very kind words. Isn’t it amazing how once you understand the characteristics of a sociopath, how easy it is to recognize those characteristic of others in your life, both living and deceased?
I also want to answer your hereditary question about passing it to your own children — the answer is definitely “yes” you can. I have three kids, the first being from a different mother than the other two. Sarah, my first child, has it much worse than the second two, the second two acquiring it from both parents.
It surely seems to be the dominant gene.
Good luck.
October 27th, 2010 at 00:10
I’m a sociopath, I’ve never hurt anyone. Nobody in my family is like me, I’m so sorry for everybody here.
I read all of this and wanted you all to know we aren’t all bad.
Some of us understand what we are and work to fix ourselves.
October 27th, 2010 at 03:01
When did you make the realization? Were you clinically diagnosed? If not, what made you come to that conclusion?
I know that not all sociopaths are bad, I also know that not all sociopaths are aware of their condition and just try to fit in.
There are sociopaths who are adored, loved by many and likely don’t have a clue. But instead, feel “blessed” in some way.
Share more of your story, please.
Thank you.
October 27th, 2010 at 03:34
Frankly, you may believe you are a sociopath, but I have serious doubts. Would you please share your gender and age?
Someone suffering from APD or NPD (i.e., a sociopath) has no typical human emotions. I sense compassion and sorrow in your words, and concern for others. That would practically negate that diagnosis.
There could only be one other explanation.
October 27th, 2010 at 16:34
To be honest i will only state that i am a male, i was clinically diagnosed about two years ago.
I was told it was a mild case, but they still wanted to try to “treat” me. I refused.
When i say i’m sorry i mean that only in the sense that i recognize that there is pain there.
Please do elaborate on the other option, they did not tell me i had APD or NPD, they told me that i would develop more.
I have 18 of the traits on this website.
October 29th, 2010 at 13:56
What was your clinical diagnosis? You would have been given a copy of it. You are anonymous, remember.
What type of professional diagnosed you? You said “they” wanted to treat you, yet there is no treatment.
You “would develop more” of what?
October 30th, 2010 at 00:04
treat me, to treat me they would put me through intense therapy.
My diagnosis was given to me by a relative of mine. He is a neurologist.
To maintain my secrecy i will not reveal any information, that would compromise my intellectual integrity among my intellectual peers on this website.
I will request that you refrain from asking questions about me, this particular forum may aid me psychologically, however if my family or friends knew i would be hated.
November 9th, 2010 at 14:21
‘Human’
Nothing of what you write makes any sense to me. I asked your age for that very reason. You may be vulnerable, you may have other problems, but your comments leave big holes.
A neurologist is not trained in psychology. His opinion probably carries less weight than mine. Mild case? Would develop more? Treat you with intense therapy? Who? The neurologist?
I just can’t buy your story. Maybe others can.
February 26th, 2011 at 23:36
Hey Larry, the site looks great.
Haven’t seen my dad nor talked with the family. Just had my B-day, not a single call from any one not even my Mom. Hope you are well my friend. Your always on my mind. Keep moving God’s Kingdom forward.
Most people they will never understand the pain of being a victum. I do. Love ya and talk with ya soon. I pray for ya every day.
February 27th, 2011 at 03:34
Thanks Michael.
Had my birthday recently, too. No one called me either.
February 28th, 2011 at 08:33
Human,
I’m wondering if you’re being “diagnosed” by someone who wants to cause you damage. The fact that you worry about your friends and family hating you gives quite a lot away. A sociopath wouldn’t worry about being hated – they would be busy manipulating, and conniving, ensuring that everyone was “on their side”.
My mother tried to convince people that I was schizophrenic. I was a teenager, and eventually went to my doctor, who laughed when I told him. I’d known him for years, and he obviously knew I wasn’t hearing voices, etc, and was aware of all my actions, and NOT doing anything which I was unaware of. (my mum accused me of all sorts of things, and when I’d get upset because I knew I hadn’t done them, she would say you must be a schizophrenic, and you’re doing things in a “blackout”).
When I told my mother I’d gone to the doc because she’d made me so worried about it, she flew into a rage, and told my family that I was manipulating people against HER, and telling the doctor lies – she had NEVER said such a thing about me! Craziness! Lol!
But people will use mental illness against you if they have this kind of personality. It doesn’t sound as though you have a proper diagnosis, it sounds as though you might be on the receiving end of some abuse. Visit a real, proper doctor – you can do it in total confidence – and at least you’ll have a starting point.
Good luck!
February 28th, 2011 at 12:19
Louise, I don’t know about Human’s experience, but it seems pretty apparent from what you’ve written your mother is full-blown. (Doesn’t it make you wonder where the heck these people get their textbook moves from?! They are SO predictable that many times I’ve seriously questioned if there really is a Psychopath’s Manual out there).
Do you practice No Contact with your mother now? If so, how did it go for you? The reason I ask is because I’ve realized my own mother is the root of all evil…ahem, I mean, root of all my problems. I made the decision to go No Contact but it took two years for my heart to heal before I realized how great I felt to be emancipated. I’m in my mid-forties and I just wished I done this twenty years ago. She still tries to get her foot in the door with assorted nasty behaviours but I refuse to play her games anymore and ignore her entirely. It’s driving her nuts.
February 28th, 2011 at 16:05
Hi, Carly. My mum died when I was 25. And it just added to the “Saint” persona she had perfected. To this day, people still tell me what a wonderful woman she was, and I’ve learned to just nod and smile (I’m really glad that she was so nice to them, that makes it all ok, sorry, can’t help the sarcasm sometimes! Lol!), because even now she isn’t here anymore, I’d just get called a liar.
I still remember thinking that surely she would tell the truth about so many things before she died – she couldn’t be cruel enough to leave me here to deal with the lies she had told. But no, she took the truth to the grave and left me here to tolerate what she had created.
But my brothers are either sociopathic too to a greater or lesser degree, or else they were just conditioned from a young age to treat me as for their use. I just recently allowed my older brother back into my life, I should have known better. I’ve just cut ties with him again.
I would say that although it hurts (because you still love them, no matter how evil they are to you! Love’s hard to kill), your best bet is to distance yourself if they keep manipulating and trying to control you. In my experience trying to tell the truth through their lies only serves to wind you up, upset you, and ultimately make you ill.
You can choose your friends. How great is that!?!?! And good friends become like family – in my case the family I wish I had had growing up. It still makes me sad at times, and I am utterly terrified of catching myself doing the things that she did, so I think her ghost will be in my head for the rest of my life. But she no longer has control, and I’m trying really hard to let go of the past.
And also look at the info on this site – I think it’s a really big help to just be able to understand what makes these people tick. I do try to remind myself that she couldn’t help it. But that also means there’s no remedy other than to get away.
I hope you’re strong enough to stick to your guns, I know it’s hard being labelled a heartless person just because you’re trying to protect yourself.
February 28th, 2011 at 22:25
Carly & Louise,
Great dialog. Your comments are very appreciated as they provide additional insight to those looking for answers — answers which I alone cannot provide. Without comments such as yours, this site would be very myopic. IMHO.
Thank you.
March 26th, 2011 at 23:20
Louise. I have a face book account too and there are now settings that can hide your friends list. I have a sociopathic brother and must block him and keep things private because i know what he likes to do. I know this doesn’t help you now if what you suspect is true. But just so you know…
May 21st, 2011 at 12:24
Christine E, sounds like your ex-husband had narcisitic personality disorder, rather than being a sociopath. Narcissists also lack empathy for people, and can be just as dangerous as sociopaths, but they truely believe they are better than everyone and feel threaten and angry when the belief is challenged somehow, or shown not to be true.
I think sociopaths can accept they are not the best at everything.
May 21st, 2011 at 20:45
Lucy,
Your comment sounds as if you believe it’s an “either-or” proposition: i.e., someone with NPD can’t also be a psychopath (aka, sociopath).
Narcissism is also a common component of ASPD.
May 22nd, 2011 at 12:03
My neice may get a job as a police dispatcher. So far my Sociopathic brother has moved in with her.
She doesn’t think her dads insane. Of course he keeps his true self hidden from her because of his parasitic lifestyle. She has way too much to offer. Now he can live in a comfortable apartment instead of the run down travel trailer at the sleaziest trailer park in town. I thought about calling the sheriffs dept and warning them about my brother and the way he has manipulated my niece. I know its not her fault. She is way too trusting.
I love her and do not want to hurt her. On the other hand my brother may find this as a way to hurt me and my other brother whom he hates and is insanely jealous of since he resides on the property my mother owns. But maybe the sheriffs will see through him. I don’t know. He is a very convincing liar. Since he is such an opportunsist, as we all know sociopaths are.
He has broken the law the first half of his life, and now he is leaching off the system getting foodstamps, social security disabilty & money free medical from the government etc.
May 23rd, 2011 at 10:56
Hi Debbie. I know you want to warn your neice, and do the right thing, but you’re right in that sociopaths are very plausible and charming, and I honestly think you’ll be the one who ends up being painted as vengeful and spiteful. I’ve been there so many times lol! You feel like you’re telling the truth, and surely that will be obvious, but sometimes lies – especially when they’re being told by someone so accomplished in the art – are much more powerful, because they can be adapted by the liar to be more palatable to the listener, and play on what they want to hear.
The best thing you can do is make up your mind that when the proverbial does eventually hit the fan for your neice, you’ll be there to help her pick up the pieces. People don’t want to see the bad parts of those they care about, and even when you’re the one on the receiving end, it can take a number of years before your figure out how much you’ve been manipulated and deceived.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck.
May 24th, 2011 at 19:58
Debbie,
Louise said it well. All I want to add is that each time I attempted to warn someone, it was a major failure. Those closest tend to be their most loyal disciples. Proceed with caution.
June 6th, 2011 at 14:40
My sociopath had a history of destroying women’s lives. He was very handsome blond, tall, beautiful blue eyes and finely chiseled features. He used his looks as an advantage- to captivate. When we met I wasn’t attracted to him, and only became so when our minds met.
He had a strangeness to him- that puzzled me, a curious way of looking at life- as if from afar.
It wasn’t until later I realised this observational way about him was really his inability to feel empathy. He struck a nerve in me that needed to know more. Sometimes I think he would dissect a person and become what he thought they needed- just to reel them in. Then later when his true self emerged- he would flee.
He did this many times with many different people-only a few really stuck around. Those that did are like me, we saw a broken person who really struggled to be better. Those same people are now the only ones who have helped me with his suicide. His family has all but shoved him under the rug.
He had many friends in the psychotherapy profession who saw him as a text book case of exteme complex PTSD with sociopathic tendencies. He was studied at WSU teaching hospital. They helped me understand my role in his life, and taught me to protect myself.
Without this fore-warning and education I would have been yet another casualty. I feel for those less educated in this realm of madness- a sociopath can be the most destuctive human force on Earth.
We are witnessing that force in our country- in our leaders- in our corporations, and in those around us. Those of us who feel deeply must stick together, and help one another.
June 6th, 2011 at 15:52
>> “… a sociopath can be the most destructive human force on Earth. We are witnessing that force in our country- in our leaders- in our corporations, and in those around us.”
Carla, you certainly have a deep understanding of the disorders. I couldn’t agree with you more.
Thank you.
September 11th, 2011 at 22:09
Carla, that’s fascinating that WSU studied yours. (I’m so sorry that he committed suicide.) So, he was traumatized as child, which resulted in his extreme complex PTSD, and his the necessary coping mechanism of dissociating, solidified into sociopathic tendencies – correct? If so, then it sounds as if he, contrary to Larry’s beliefs, is a more or less “made” sociopath, not a born one.
How did it come about that he was a study subject at WSU? (Wash. Sate Univ?) Has WSU published the studies? Are other teaching hospitals duplicating this?
If so, then there’s hope that sociopathy will become more readily recognizable by the next generation of new doctors. It is very important that the general public become educated on the markers and manipulation techniques, so that the supply of new naive targets contracts, which will help others avoid becoming their next victims.
Thank you, Larry, for contributing to the education process. Carla, I hope you see this and can answer my questions.
Lastly, yes, it would be very good is those of us who feel deeply….and for others, not just for ourselves, like sociopaths do….could stick together.
September 28th, 2011 at 21:48
Danna,
You’re welcome, and thanks for your thoughts. My writings have been an education process for me, too.
September 29th, 2011 at 22:46
I love this site, it’s very helpful. I am the target of a sociopath and it caused great mental distress, my life for 2 years. But… George Bush is no sociopath. He was lied to as well. He’s very normal and in fact unpolished in some ways. I am positive that this is not remotely true about President George Bush. Let’s keep the politics at home because I see a much more obvious choice for sociopath in power now.
September 29th, 2011 at 23:18
Isabel,
Thank you for the kind words. My greatest reward is that this site helps other people.
I’m a non-political type person. I do not belong to either party, though I’ve voted for members from both parties. You stated, “He was lied to as well” which infers you accept he also lied.
The president of the US is the most powerful person on the planet. His second press secretary, who was a staunch Republican and supporter of Bush, resigned because he discovered he was being used as a pawn to pass lies to the American public, as well as the world. Some of his most loyal supporters, people with integrity, have spoken out against him.
You suggested keeping politics out of this, but then you inferred that Obama is a sociopath. I’ve heard the same accusations, but I haven’t seen it. Other then rhetoric, where do you see it?
October 3rd, 2011 at 04:56
Dear Larry:
I stumbled on this site while searching for understanding on the damnedable sociopath. I’m a lifelong psychiatric patient. Often times I identify a sociopath amongst my peers when they begin to discuss their symptoms. I’m friendly and gentle hearted toward them but I always admonish them to “concentrate on moral thoughts” during manifestation of symptoms.
If they disregard what I said in any way, or if they get defensive or act like I insulted them, then I take it as a red flag. I use a similar approach when dealing with non-patients who also share their problems with me. The issue of morality will barely register in the response of an evil person. Even when they’re good at the shuck and jive one of these people will only be able to recite plattitudes by rote and then you’ll have their number without them even knowing it.
I think that it’s right to get away from that type just as you advise. But you know sometimes, a bad dude or a bad bitch will zero in on you, and thats when I suggest that you fight back. When one of them gets designs on you for no reason they will hold on and not let go until you’ve got them spitting their own teeth. I have seen just enough loved ones die right in front of my eyes that I’m not worried about what a sociopath thinks they can do to me.
Sometimes when a sociopath says that they’ll kill me, I get mean and say, “Good, I’ll save a seat for you in hell.” They sometimes will consider the possiblity that you too may be a sociopath and that they might be muscling in on a pre-existing franchise.
I had one lady on my case FOR FIVE YEARS merely because I had refused to kill her mother and her father as she asked me to do. I didn’t snitch on her, but she had the throttle response mentioned elsewhere on this site, and she did a lot of really bad things to me just because I politely declined to become a killer. The police wouldnt help me until I got the feds involved. The murder solicitations were made while she and I worked at the local airport (in front of audio/video security cameras). My local airport is in Kenai Alaska in case anyone wants to verify the truth of at least some of what I’m saying.
I lucked out here. Everyone who has this problem needs to get some some strong evidence that the sociopath has proposed some sort of killing and dying. In my case I had to depend on the FBI’s willingness to look at the audio-video archives.
After I started railing at the feds about this, not only did the woman go away to god knows where but the TSA office at my local airport was also shut down (sometimes I wonder if the September 11 attack was just an excuse to give federal jobs to retards).
I was never told the what and why of these corrective actions, but it doesn’t matter because I got the basic peace that I wanted. I assume the TSA officers knew what this woman was doing and were probably terminated for sitting on their PIG behinds.
As a psych patient I’ve had similar run ins with sociopaths who would zero in on me in a like-manner as the above example. I am a good kind man, but I come from a very very tough background, and so long as the offender was the same gender as me I have never hesitated to go meet them in the darkness and work them over really well. With female sociopaths I’ve caused certain symptoms attributable to domestic violence but only as a last resort when the police won’t respond to a complaint.
If you have to fight someone when they are witnesses then try to wrestle them and say nothing whatsoever if possible, so that witnesses can’t say that you provoked the fight. If you do karate, dont to karate shouts. You will be arrested and charged with assault if anyone reports you shouting at or arguing with your opponent.
Even if you think your a weakling you can get a jagged stick and adopt the sinister contenance of a sociopath and they will get away from you fast. Get alone with one of these people and get really crazy. If a bully is a coward, a sociopath is a chicken-$#!+.
Let me add, that we should all lay down our lives against evil if necessary. In Space Balls, Rick Moranis said that ‘Evil defeats Good because good is dumb’. But you know, Good actually defeats Evil because evil is like fire that consumes all of its fuel until none is left. Good sustains itself like water which rises into the sky and falls to the earth endlessly every single day. Water can turn stone to dust, while fire hasnt enough lifespan to do anything but eat and die. Another way to put it: “If the devil stands against the devil how shall his house remain standing?”
Larry, I’m glad that you’re a proponent of peace. I’m glad that you remind me that I’m not at fault when another person harms me. As the human race evolves more people will be like you. I’m certain that goodness is a bright beacon in all of our souls and increasing goodness is our destiny.
October 7th, 2011 at 11:39
Larry,
I am particularly interested in the “it’s all genetic” assertion that you are making. Not even “partly genetics, partly environment.” I am not disagreeing with you. I’m just extremely interested in your conclusion. Because it is not what most people say. I’m not even sure (???) that Robert Hare says that.
I’m also interested in why this is so important for so many of us to nail. I really want to know the truth about it. I think some of it has to do with forgiving people, and that includes myself, as I am parent of 3 kids, and I sometimes wonder how much of their personalities is my “fault” (bad parenting) or to my credit (good parenting). Maybe very little of it has to do with me, after all, parenting-wise. Maybe it has to do with my genes. OR, something else — but still inborn.
And I also am hearing more and more stories these days about adopted children who are taken in by extremely loving families, and these kids turn out to be monsters. I’m not saying all of them. But some of them. So, how much does good/parenting have to do with it?
As well… this type of thinking gets me wondering about the wisdom of having a child with an anonymous sperm or egg donor. I’m wondering what type of research is being done on the personality development of the children thus conceived.
Thanks for your insights on this topic.
October 13th, 2011 at 09:12
@ Maug …
I’m sure you have good intentions, but I wouldn’t believe that a psychopath could concentrate on moral thoughts. It conjures up the visual of a vampire caught in sunlight.
Are you saying that you are not afraid of dying? Or you’re not afraid of death? To me, there’s a difference. Dying is the transition between life and death. Personally I’m not afraid of death … it’s the transition that can be worrisome.
You seem to have guts (or a death wish), but deciding to fight back is not a stance to take lightly. The worse place you can end up is in that transition. You seem to say that you’ve been surrounded by many different types of mental patients. Your candor just makes me want to ask if you’ve ever been an in-patient yourself?
If you wave your fist in someone’s face, that’s called assault. If you then continue and hit them, that’s called assault and battery.
I appreciate your kind words and thoughts, though I cannot agree with your theory on the evolution of the human race. We are not heading down a path to peace and harmony. People are living longer, so more people are being born than dying. The earth is becoming overcrowded and extremely aggressive.
Food is being manufactured, not grown. Countries, including the US, are invading other countries to get at their natural resources, under the guise of fighting terrorism.
We live in a world according to FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). That’s exactly where the powers-at-be want to keep us.
@ Steph …
I know; I hear the same rhetoric. I don’t believe most people really know, but just repeat what they hear. But please consider that a person does not need to be a psychopath to be maliciously evil, or vice versa.
And as I look for it, I just realized, Steph, that you brought something to my attention. Scroll up this page, and stop just above the first comment. You’ll arrive at: “Sources: [1]… [2]…”
Read what [2] says. It’s the bibliography for the brain abnormalities research that I discovered and initially placed on this page. This page became the resting place of many discoveries I found fascinating. Then it became enormous, so one day I extracted the stuff that didn’t fit, until I could find a appropriate place. Hence, it’s back on my to-do list.
You seem to want to take the blame for how your kids are acting. You may or may not be right. But kids learn much more by example, than by what they are told. How were you as an example? When I became a single parent, I became a good “child” with my kids. I would listen to them more than speak, and they always came first. We were extremely close. In their teens, it was like an overnight change.
Keep in mind that the “bad gene” usually appears in the mid-to-late teens. Prior to that, the kids can be angels with no signs, whatsoever of the change that may occur.
I am certainly unqualified to express a decent opinion about conceiving with a donor sperm or egg. Initially, I think it’s risky. The organizations probably do not report to any overseer. Their documents could easily be made to look more polished. Not long ago, I read about studies done with sperm donated by Nobel Laureates, and as they followed the children’s years of progression, they were just average students … the same went for athletes. The outcome is a crapshoot.
October 13th, 2011 at 10:33
@Larry…
My gut tells me that it is far more hereditary than people realize or are willing to accept. I believe what you say (not just your experience, but others’) about its kicking into gear during mid-late adolescence.
I don’t actually want to take the blame… but I just want the truth. A lot of people want to pin the blame on the parenting. I want to take responsibility for my part in it — no more, no less. That is realistic and based on truth.
I can accept that we don’t know the truth right now.
The brain research is fascinating. I am of a mind (I do not have any professional background in this so it is just my experience, observations, my independent research, and thoughtful opinions of people like you) that even if there is a strong correlation in brain structure or whatever to psychopathy/sociopathy/personality disorders… how much of it is immutable, how much is a chicken-egg thing… I don’t think anybody knows this, right now. It is interesting to speculate, and heavens that’s how research happens – -because of curiosity and wanting to find answers. But the more I learn… the less I am convinced that a solid answer may ever be found.
Or… I consider that in the case of “heredity vs. environment” we may be assuming that “environment” means parenting — when it may mean something else entirely. Such as peer influence, cultural influence, a traumatic experience that had nothing to do with parenting, some kind of poisoning or nutritional imbalance… jeez, I think we just do not know, and cannot assume.
But, for some reason, this remains important to me to know. It may ease my mind, to know that I did everything I *could* have done, if my kids turn out to be sociopaths *anyway.* I haven’t gotten that far with them yet, though. I still have much hope that they will be OK. Hope is all that it is, though. Not confidence. Just hope.
Which brings me to my next burning question: what does it mean to “love” a sociopath? If the sociopath is incapable of love (and that certainly seems to be true and not just a guess), what does it mean to “unconditionally love” a sociopath, as a fellow human being, as one’s child, one’s spouse, etc.
I can say right now — I no longer love my ex-husband. But I did. All that ever was between us, I know now, was unidirectional. Is that love? Or is that irrational on my part (to have loved someone incapable of love — during the time that I was fooled and misled by him)?
How about if the sociopath turns out to be my child? What form does or should my “unconditional” love take? This is my current philosophical struggle…
What should society’s response be towards the sociopaths in our midst? Do we (spiritually speaking) unconditionally love and forgive them (for their utter, lacking incapability of human, reciprocal love — not their fault?) — and then… if so… how do we respond, and still be loving people?
(Disclaimer: I’m not implying that I am that spiritually evolved. Just that I am grappling with these questions)
October 18th, 2011 at 11:31
Larry, have you read the work of Dr. Gabor Mate, Canadian medical doctor, of Jewish descent – his parents were Hungarian survivors of the Holocaust. (I believe.)
His studies maintain that the biochemical environment in utero is extremely important to the eventual brain biochemistry and physiology of the new human. If the pregnant mother is subjected to traumas, and therefore her body creates poisonous cortisols and other stress hormones, then the fetus will be negatively affected, and even addicted to the stress hormones with which (s)he was assaulted and battered in utero.
In this way, one could say that a stress hormone addicted human is born (the words commonly used for genetic roots), however, in reality, this already damaged human was born damaged by environmental factors.
So, it’s impossible to unfurl one from the other (genetic vs environmental).
In addition, there’s Dr. James Fallon, the UC Irvine neuroscientist, who’s studied the brains of psychopaths for the past 20 years. he discovered that he, himself, has the brain of a psychopath…and yet, he is not one. He is a loving husband and father, who contributes well to his field and our tax base.
He attributes the fact that he has not manifested the behaviors of a psychopath (even though his brain activity, or lack of brain activity in the pre-frontal cortex, right behind the occipital bones says he should be manifesting psycho or sociopathic behavior) to the fact that he grew up in a loving intact family.
I am simply adding to the discussion here.
In terms of protecting oneself from the deep, deep harm a sociopath inflicts on another human, whom they’ve fooled, it is a best first protocol to view them as if they will never change, and they were just born that way. That way, the empath is less likely to hold out false hope, which turns into malignant hope, and then, keeps the empath enmired in the web of the sociopath.
November 2nd, 2011 at 15:46
Interesting discussion about genetics vs. environment. The field of epigenetics seems to indicate that genetics and environment cannot be separated. That is where the explanation to this phenomenon will be found eventually, IMO.
Which inherited genes are expressed in any given child could be the result of not only the environment during fetal development in the womb, but the environmental factors experienced by that child’s parents and grandparents and so on, back through time.
Inherited genes are one thing, but environment could determine which of those genes is activated, before the child is born.
This is not reassuring to me.
November 2nd, 2011 at 15:52
Here’s a book I found helpful: Just Like His Father, by Liane Leedom, MD.
Many things are beyond my control. I can control the kind of parent I choose to be.
November 2nd, 2011 at 16:04
@ Danna …
I have not read Dr. Mate’s book. I like your last paragraph, but it seems to present an ideal situation. Most people are so conned by psychopaths (I being one of them) that by the time they discover it, the damage can be virtually undoable. The information you present, though, is interesting.
@ Daughter in Law …
What you can be assured of is that most of this is theory, and there are many theories circulating. Do the best you can, and take one day at a time.
November 2nd, 2011 at 16:35
@ Daughter In Law and Larry:
I do not mean to be flip about the pain we’ve endured and the fear for our children’s futures, but there is a spiritual aspect to both healing from the harm inflicted by the perp, and to protecting our children from fully manifesting the negatives of their genetic makeup.
God can heal this….while at the same time, our children are independent agents with their own free will.
(Btw, I love and respect Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, the Jewish faith, was a Buddhist before I met Jesus, and came from an atheist home. My parents, still atheists, walk a more Godly walk than many Christians I know. In other words, I do not judge others for their faiths or lack thereof….just saying what’s working for me.)
November 2nd, 2011 at 17:54
@ Danna …
I did not sense anything flippant about what you said. I like your comment “My parents, still atheists, walk a more Godly walk than many Christians I know” — ain’t that the truth.
I know some church-goers who belong entirely for social reasons, as it’s politically correct. I digress, but would this country ever elect a non-Christian as president, let alone an atheist. Rhetorical question.
November 18th, 2011 at 08:26
While your website appears to be about sociopaths within the family, it’s become clear to me that sociopaths are running our country at every level. They are human predators and we are their prey.
November 18th, 2011 at 09:01
You are exactly correct, Karen.
Consider this: psychopaths need people to be blind followers to help them achieve their narcissistic goals. Psychopaths will attack a person’s character without a second thought. Psychopaths think they are better than most everyone else.
Sound anything like a politician?
November 18th, 2011 at 09:44
To grow up with narcissistic parents meant (to me) to grow up with my identity denied. To not be a separate person, but an extension of them. If I did “good” it reflected well on them. If I made errors, I was an “embarrassment” or “disappointment.” But I don’t think my parents crossed a line into sociopathy. Who knows. Where do you you draw that line? It comes in so many flavors and degrees.
But psychopath/sociopath would be my ex-husband. I guess I was groomed or trained from birth to mold myself to the narcissist or sociopath and not realize that wasn’t healthy. At the same time — yes, I think many of us have had this experience? — I would have characterized myself as a strong person, with a backbone, able to stand up for myself. (a paradox)
People liked me. Sure, why wouldn’t they? I could mold myself into anything they wanted — I didn’t know I was doing this, of course. I was just trying to be a good person, as I was trained to be, and to be pleasing and pleasant and cooperative and good attitude and all that. I mean everything: attractive, interesting, charming, generous! They all liked that.
But while the narcissists trained me not to have an identity apart from their carefully designed/assigned role for me, the sociopath led me (eventually) to doubt my own very existence. Whenever I veered away from his script for me, I was completely ignored as though I didn’t exist. Over time, “I” became smaller and smaller, until I was very close to self-annihilating. To keep the peace, you see. There were grave consequences (violence), as well, for being anything other than what/who he expected. You think that movie “Sleeping With the Enemy” is too fantastical to be believed? Think again. I found it realistic.
I think I am lucky that I actually AM a strong person. I got away. That is no small feat. I am learning who I am, though who I might have been is… well, causing me some grief. You see, I’m not young anymore, and it feels like those years were stolen from me. I’m not done grieving yet.
This will take time. I still have children to raise. So, I have to keep a tight grip on reality and gutting through the pain. It’s incredibly lonely. Thank goodness for forums like this, so I know I’m not alone. I have no one I know, personally — friends or relatives OR therapist, who remotely gets this.
I have “disappointed” and “embarrassed” them. I am not such a pleasing person anymore. And my reputation has been smeared in the community by my lying ex. How does one get over that?
It is so painful to have been lied to, in every way that it is possible to lie to a person. By one’s spouse, especially. (?)
People are impatient with me. Or they want me to return to who I “was.” And I certainly can’t do that!
And triggers are everywhere: I hear a wife complain about her husband, or a coach abuses a young boy and tries to cover up, or people react in shocked horror and start pointing fingers at everyone who “knew and could have done something but didn’t…” — you know, a kind of “off with their heads!” response, and I shake my head and think, my God, no one really knows what this is like, unless they have lived it. Up close and personal. Not that I wish that on anyone.
I hope to emerge stronger and more loving — maybe then I will say that this experience is worth it, be more wise, peaceful, and evolve to a place where I experience quiet acceptance and loving-kindness. With eyes wide open. Need to push through this. Not there yet.
November 20th, 2011 at 06:30
I’m sad that Stephs parent were so hard hearted and I’m joyful that Dannas parents were goodly. Yet both of you along with myself are so intent on figuring this out. My elders and other relatives seem to include an equal mixture or crooks and do-gooders. I am baffled that my kin tend to be definitively one or the other. I take great comfort in associating exclusively with the good ones. Life isn’t meant to be lead in a persistant state of shame and regret.
Steph you are doing a very noble thing by dividing your children from the harmful influences. A sociopath doesnt care that it’s all fun and games until they cause an innocent child to become a raving lunatic.
Larry, yeah I have done a small amount of inpatient institutionalization. My main malfunction is that I saw some killing and dying when I was a youngster. Limited access to food and shelter exaserbated my response and I was pressed into therapy by public school officials. I found benefit in many types of therapy and have stayed with it all of my life.
I’m afraid to die, but sometimes in a book or a movie, a nobody like myself finds himself with the choice to throw away his life on behalf of the weak and innocent and I find myself dwelling on the meaning of that choice. I wonder over and over again if it’s any use to die for the weak and innocent. Is it possible that they deserve to die because of their own poor judgement, or is that conclusion irrelevant to whatever transcendental outcome lies in the decision to be the one who dies? To me that issue is the most fascinating element to be found in literature.
I surely admit that I have walked away from innocent people because their poor judgement bordered on the self destructive, ie; the abused spouse who will get angry at you or I if we paste the abuser to the ground. So my sense of self preservation keeps me from going ‘there’.
I wonder, am I a coward to let some of that evil to slide on by or am I wise to save myself to serve a greater good? Its very very difficult to tell.
Of course giving, and sharing, and healing are THE greater good. But is there a greater good in preventative or militant action? I ask anyone on this site how they themselves might make this sort of decision.
Like you know, sometimes when we try to rise above the line, how often to we inadvertantly cause or allow suffering in a way which is simply too close for comfort?
A sociopath or an evil doer must be the ultimate sort of fool. They must realize that the’re going to end up in a bad place. It’s basic logic that destructive behaviour creates a cloud of pure entropy which clings to the perpetrator often times for the remainder of their life. I think evil folks are the most afraid of death and they ultimately live a long life of coping with the bizarre consequences of the things they’ve done.
I realized this when I worked for a time caring for elderly people.
If a sociopath is so smart, why do they fail to predict the outcome of what they’re doing? A cop friend of mine was once complaining about bad cops, and said that bad cops always get caught, although not before they hurt a great many people. And then the bad cop gets sent to a place where apsolutely everybody hates him. My friend was baffled that a bad cop would dare to take the risk.
December 7th, 2011 at 02:38
Excellent insight! I too was married to a narcissistic sociopath, and have worked with 4 of them, (2 were female) and I have a sister (same name as your sister!) who is a class A sociopath. Thank you for your insight, it has been very helpful. I recognized most of victim traits in myself.
How can I change to protect myself?
December 14th, 2011 at 22:24
There is a long history of mental disorders on my mothers side: bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, a boatload of extreme Obsessive Compulsives, and, of course, the ever formidable sociopathy. My mother has moderate bipolar disorder and extreme social anxiety, the latter rubbing off on me, and it is something I struggle with every day, but it’s also something that I know I have the strength to overcome.
I’ve diagnosed sociopathy in two of my aunts, and I suspect my grandfather to have had it as well- He died long before I was born, but from the stories my mother recounts of his narcissism, and lack of remorse or attachment to his children, he definitely fits the bill. My uncle is in an asylum. My mother doesn’t talk about him, but I have uncovered from some sleuthing and from a document I found while snooping around that he is in prison for murdering my other uncle, and his wife’s brother.
I have no clue about his mental state, but I can only guess it is not a stable one. Unlike my anxiety, sociopathy isn’t something you can be treated for. It is unavoidable and unconquerable. Sociopaths don’t believe there’s anything wrong. They’re right. They’re always right.
It has always been my biggest fear, that one of these dormant traits will suddenly become active in me. I know many people begin exhibiting personality disorders in their mid to late teens, and I’ve even witnessed this transformation in a couple of my peers.
Due to this, something I’ve worried about ever since I’ve been able to notice characteristics of personality disorders in my family, is the possibility that I have inherited them as well but they have just not yet showed themselves.
What if tomorrow my personality begins to change drastically? What if I morph into a paranoid schizophrenic and go absolutely bonkers?? What if I suddenly cease to feel human emotions such as love or guilt?
I treasure my sanity and humanity more than anything else in the world, and I’m so frightened to lose it. It’s a fate I fear worse than death.
My brother, who is seventeen years my senior and by my account a well adjusted and lovely individual, is the only one I feel i can connect with in my family, other than my father and his family, who live far away. He’s the only one who can assure me that I’m not crazy.
I’m seventeen now. I believe I’m probably not going to suddenly turn evil- I have faith that I am a generally good person.
But I fear I’ll never stop worrying. That one day..
Does anyone else here share these same fears?
December 15th, 2011 at 13:07
Hi Kelsi.
I’d say the very fact that you’re concerned about being a good person is a contra-indication of narcissism or a sociopathic disorder. If you were narcissistic, you basically wouldn’t care Lol!
I think having concerns about our own mental health is normal, especially if we’ve been on the receiving end of behaviour from people with sociopathic tendencies. Your family history seems a difficult one from a mental health point of view, so that will bring it to the forefront of your mind as well, it’s only natural, I suppose.
Don’t you think being so aware of it makes you check your own behaviour, to make sure you definitely aren’t doing anything undesirable? I constantly check myself, so I suppose you can get a little bit paranoid about it.
I know that they say traits start to show in teenage years in most cases, but your post makes you sound connected emotionally to others at the moment, so try to just live and enjoy your life. I’m not too sure about this developmental part of it, Larry will have more insight, I’m sure. The suspected sociopaths in my life were my mother and brothers, so I wasn’t around when her traits would have developed, and was too busy going through my own teen angst to notice my brothers, obviously Lol!
Try not to worry, Kelsi, about something that probably won’t happen. There are enough things in the world to worry about when they actually do occur. Enjoy your life, you’re only 17!!! Work on your anxiety issues, build up some confidence, and go out there and kick your heels up!
You’re only young once
December 21st, 2011 at 08:13
I had my name changed.
I will never be part of a family that supports and promotes Sociopathic Behaviour.
My father didn’t raise me that way.
December 31st, 2011 at 08:10
Hi Larry
I have been living with my partner, a sociopath, for 16 years. I discovered what she was in the first few weeks of our relationship. I confronted her and told her to leave. She simply refused to go.
What I didn’t know (and I feel so completely stupid), was that she was already in the process of perpetrating the character assassination that ended my life.
When I met her, I had a lot of friends. I was not a perfect person, I encountered personal issues with folks from time to time (in retrospect, mostly the psychologically unwell). But I was basically a cheery, positive person with a bright future in front of me. In the early days, my partner called me a “Happiness Nazi” because I thought it was better to aim for a happy life and give people the benefit of a doubt. I am truly a nice person. She has since told me that it is the fact that I am an honestly nice person and that I am really who I present myself to be that really pissed her off.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t suffer fools and I have an amasingly accurate BS radar. I lived youthful life with scary parents and learned. I became acutely aware of peoples’ behaviors and realised that the outside world was actually a much better place. I digress…
My (then) profession is one that is so small that I cannot mention it here. Everyone in that community of professionals knows or knows of one another. I had worked hard for years to garner respect and connections and was truly well thought of. I was getting hired and was about to join a world class group of individuals. I was on the precipice of true success in my field.
As you said, once you realise what is going on with the character assassinating sociopath, it is too late.
She was, and is, the gregarious, friendly, beautiful woman persona at all the parties. But in private, she was, and at times still uses, the “save me, I’m drowning” victim persona. Once that doesn’t work, she goes into a murderous rage that would frighten a Kung Fu master.
Although I knew I was having great difficulties with her personally and wanted her away from me within 12 weeks of our meeting (I didn’t know about the rages quite yet), I had no idea she was also destroying my character.
In retrospect (because that’s what we have, isn’t it?) The first thing that happened was that my friends abandoned me about 6 weeks after I met her. 4 of my closest friends dumped me in one week. I thought they just couldn’t deal with our relationship. Other friends I had had for years dropped me within 3 weeks of meeting her. But within weeks, I started hearing lies she would say to people. She is so bold, that she would just say them right in front of me. There was nothing I could do. Denying them just made me look all the more guilty and letting them pass and laugh didn’t help either. She is smooth and quick. Did I mention beautiful? As we know, pretty girls are almost always sided with in any differing of opinion. (And the rest of the time, as well)
In under a year, I was on the road of no return in regard to my career. It is so bad, that no one would even tell me why or what I had done.
Once I accepted that I was in a hopeless and helpless situation, I had become terribly ill. It took 10 years to finally diagnose me and I was dying at that point. During those years, I had no support because I had no friends. I was alone all the time except when she would come home. She did no chores and if I wanted food, clean clothes, or utilities, it was up to me to make them happen. I could not work, because NO ONE WOULD HIRE ME. Then, after a few years, my illness made work a moot point anyway.
I was finally diagnosed, went into physical therapy and have more or less come out the other end. I am still sick but I manage better every day and physically, could actually participate in my profession.
But I can’t.
I have been so black balled that people refuse to even look at me and to this day, no one will tell me what it is I have supposedly done.
I have lost 16 years. The important, friend building, career building, wage earning years of my life. In my profession, age matters. I have lost my career. I have lost everything.
I stay because I am not able to hold down a “regular” job, nor am I trained to do any other kind of work. I have no friends or family. I need the medical insurance, as well.
So now she has her prisoner; her personal kick dog. All I can hope for now is to be able to live alone and I haven’t figured out how to do that yet.
January 10th, 2012 at 10:47
My sister-in-law is exactly like Kathy, and my girlfriend is her victim.
We suspected something was fundamentally wrong (even evil) about her behavior and the way she can turn the whole family against my girlfriend, the only one who opposes her manipulation.
Reading this has been enlightening, and has helped me understand how cautious we must be. I’ve already told my girlfriend everything I’ve read here and, while she’s kinda depressed about having to keep distance, she understands now that she’s never been the “black sheep” and that other people are going thru the same problems.
Thank you, and wish you well.
January 10th, 2012 at 12:51
Anoninato,
Thank you and I wish the best to you and your girlfriend.
January 20th, 2012 at 19:01
Hi Larry & The Gang ….
Firstly, I’d like to Say to Larry, I KNOW The Same Position You’ve Lamented, ie Where You’re outcast “unjustly,” which can lead to P.T.S.D. & self-doubt “etc” …. However, “CONGRATULATIONS” On Your Strength of Mind & Character, for “Overcoming” what the “uninitiated” haven’t a “clue” about & For “Still Producing” !!!!
I was Targeted by a Very Rare Individual, Whom I’ve “Exposed” on My “off-shore” Server, (which gets past Identity-Rights laws ….)
To cut a Loooong story short, I’ve Studied Sociology & Psychopathology in Person for Years & as-with All My Thinking I formed All-My-Own Theories without Studying texts ….
After meeting a “Malignant” Sociopath, ie A Megalomaniacal Psychopath, (AKA a Malignant “Narcissistic” Psychopath) I Found Myself “Unifying” All My Previous Theories, when I came face to face with a “Female” serial-killer …. LUCKY ME !!!!
She kills through “relentless & ruthless” attempts at “ambient-abuse,” abuse by proxy, emotional-black-mail, death-threats “etc” & as I was to Discover, (“AFTER” Exposing Her & Her Cronies,) by perverting the course of Justice ….
I’d “Followed” The Teachings of Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa & Gandhi & I ASSURE You I Tried Everything, from a Safe Distance, to get through to Her …. However, She’s a 44 Year old with the Emotional age of a 3 Year old & the alloplastic-defences to go with it ….
She derives sadistic, (ie Infantile) Narcissistic “pleasure” from Unspeakable-cruelty & “imagines” Herself to be “clever” by Lying-Pathologically ….
She’s “addicted” to Her-Own Neuro-Chemistry & Adrenaline rushes & is “Psychotic” …. ie Her lies allow Her to program Her “bitter” Mind for the kill (ie “rush”) …. Her Brain doesn’t Eat Sugar across the Entire Front of Her Brain, due to a dysfunctional “uncinate fasciculus,” so She doesn’t Actually Exist in “Reality” !!!!
She’s Lead Me to Believe that 6 Men have committed “suicide” because of Her causing Them P.T.S.D. & for Those Who won’t Her Sister has then “shot” several of Them …. LUCKY ME !!!!
They’re a gruesome twosome & on-line Their aliases are interchangeable, so They double-team You …. The elder Sister smashed the Younger 1′s Forehead off the floor repeatedly until She Said She Genuinely Thought She was going to die …. ie The Final “ingredient” to Make a “psychotic” serial killer …. (She has the Exact same Physical Construct of Brain as the mass-murderers She admires ….)
I Saw-Through Her & Stood-Up to Her & Genuinely Cared about Her, as I harrowingly Saw in Her what She “Would” have been had She not been born with what She called a “broken brain” & had She not suffered on-top of That …. However, She Informed Me that Her EVERY Action was A Deliberately Selfish & ENORMOUSLY premeditated “Choice” !!!!
I Knew It was The LAST time I’d EVER Do So, so From My Safe-Distance, I MADE “Positive” Progress with Her Thinking, as regards Her “negative” Life-Choices …. After 6 Months of Reaching-Out to Her & Her’s, I Had to put the Plight of Their next would-be victim “First” ….
They “THEN” had Me arrested & I’ve to appear in Court for the TERRIBLE CRIME of “Typing The TRUTH on Facebook” (ie Slander & breach of Confidence) 4 Months BEFORE They went to the Police & 1 Month AFTER I’d Done So …. However, They lied “fearlessly” & pathologically to The Police & were “Female” …. Whereas A Month Earlier I was HONEST & Being Male I was Told & I Quote, “We’ll wait until She kills Someone ‘Then’ We’ll arrest Her ….” :-
I’m A Philanthropist “&” I’ve been A Fearless Under-Cover Sociologist for 20 Years now, ie The Predators’ Predator, I DON’T ADVISE Doing ANYTHING like What I’ve Done, as “Kindness” or “playing-possum” with a Predator puts Your Life at risk ….
Moreover, Jesus (Communist Philosopher & Lumberjack, to Me) Said in Mark 6 :- “Shake the dust from your feet, as you leave, as a testimony against Them & abandoned those people to their ‘fate.’”
P.S. Thank You Larry, Your Community Is 1st Class & Is A Beacon For Those Who’re Wandering Through a foggy Wilderness in a Daze …. You’re A Life-Saver !!!!
Kind Regards,
Erol
January 24th, 2012 at 18:27
I was raised by narcissists and then did what they all say…married my father.
I didn’t realize it for the whole 25 years until I hit the dating scene and found that they were all I attracted. (3 to be exact and very short lived, thankfully.)
My 4th and longest was with a sociopath that I met online. TEXT book (now that it’s been a year) but RED FLAGS throughout starting from the very beginning.
What scares me the most is how trusting a person I am and believe in seeing the best even if it’s hard to see.
LONG story short~By month 3, he borrowed $2,200, a few weeks later, $500 (came home with a camcorder worth $300) and that was just the beginning. He paid me back $1,200 so I KNEW he was honest but we fought on a continual basis. (Fought~no~he RAN which is not a fight IMO!) 56 years old….I should have KNOWN something was seriously wrong!!!
I waited for 6 weeks to cash the check and he blew up that I didn’t “warn him” which started another “run.”
Did all I could to search for that diamond in his rough but it just got me looking insane (which is exactly what he intended) was rushed to the ER with one of my inSANE bouts which cost me $7,200 and was also pulled over for an OWI (I do not do drugs and have been alcohol free for 18 years) so I MUST be inSANE….RIGHT….WRONG!!!
7 months into the 12, he borrowed another $2,400.
I PROMised everyone, including ME, that MY bank was CLOSED which made him pull further and further from me and I kept up the chasing. After all, it’s better to be with SOMEone than NOT, so I thought.
The day before X-Mas….he filled my gas tank (rightly so as he used my car for 4 days) but it only took CC’s so he was going to “pay me back.” I went shopping in his town (which is 45 minutes from mine which I used to travel 3, 4 sometimes 5 times a WEEK) when he called and said he was short $90.00 and to meet him in town so he could cover the check and pay me back as soon as we got back to his shop.
Need to add that while shopping, I BEGGED him to buy all 3 of his kids this “everyone~must~have” throw as all he bought them were some very adolescent gifts and to be “allowed” to buy them, I said I’d pay for half. (Well….we were going on 3 weeks with no “run” so things were GREAT!!??)
Had a nice X-Mas Eve and the WORST altercation I’ve ever had with anyone in my entire life on X-Mas Day.
He still owes me close to $4,000 but I got that camera,
and a boombox that must be worth a LOT to HIM…took back all the clothes I purchased for him (before I found out he was a hoarder and had more clothes than I do which is LOTS!!!) took back the X-Mas gift I got him and have his old cell phone.
You’d THINK I left him from the way he never said thank you, please or you’re welcome, you’d THINK I left him because of the way he never appreciated me, you’d think I would have WALKED because…..but NO….I didn’t WALK until he used my computer and went on a social networking site that he OOPS…forgot to log out of…and there he was…Mr. always RIGHT with 1046 “friends” and only 5 were of the male gender.
I whittled his friend’s list down to 80 and dog ugly 80!!
I warned his top 5 contacts and then I ran off the sheet and went to his town to drop off the flyers to all of his friends that I KNEW liked me BUT….me being me….I went to WARN him first.
Now, I’m not saying that this wasn’t stupid (I am 5′ 4″ and 100 pounds SOAKING wet) abut he scrambled like a rabid RAT and I loved every single second.
I caught him so off guard and then when he left his shop (he’s supposedly a mechanic/car repair man but I have yet to understand why anyone would come to someone who finds changing the oil a real pain in the butt!, owes the IRS thousands and even has had his workers permit pulled for about 6 months now but that’s a whole story in and of itself) he yelled, “Go ahead…blow the place up!!” I swea, he must have REALLY thought that I was as crazy as he was trying to make me out to be!
SO….I left before he had the chance to call the cops and say I was trespassing and went to the nearest bar where his best friend is the owner.
As soon as I got there, his friend walked out the door and I asked if he knew I was coming and handed him a flyer.
At the VERY instant, here comes my SP around the corner (which thinking back, he had done MANY MANY times prior…????) and his friend handed him the flyer and he crumpled it up. We went into the bar, I tried to discuss the matter more but all he said was that by doing what I did, I ruined MANY people’s lives that he was helping through their rough times such as depression, cancer…whatever….never taking MY feelings into account which was nothing new. ANYway, I met him Jan. 22nd of 2011 and hoping now that I made it through the 22nd of 2012, I can start making it through a better and wiser person after the most tumultuous year of my life.