2009.11.19

The Short Answer:  
Their complete lack of fear or remorse from their actions.

The Longer Answer:
Read on …


Synopsis :: In mid-2007, I sent an email to my three siblings telling them if they did not stop telling horrendous and malicious lies about me, I would go public, as it was all I had left to do.

Things got quiet for almost two years, until I discovered from a relative, that she had a whole new impression of me … an ugly one. A few months later, I went live with my first site, which included our somewhat unique family name, unique enough that the site quickly began appearing as the first listing of results based on searching Kathy’s full name.

What happened next was beyond anything I thought possible, as Kathy and her disciples acted quickly to redefine “revenge” for me.


Sociopaths spend their lives manipulating others, all for selfish motives, yet they have the ability to make themselves appear to be some of the most impressive people around, including those of high morality and integrity. They seem to have many friends, yet none of those ‘followers’ actually know the real person, nor does the sociopath consider them a friend. Those “friends” only know the public persona, a very convincing personality that the sociopath creates to use and manipulate others.

The danger of ignorance.

Sociopaths are also very dangerous because of ignorance — not theirs, but everyone else’s. Virtually no one without real, first-hand experience is able to comprehend the reality of a cold-hearted, though seemingly charming sociopath.

A successful sociopath has their group of followers, but they will also have some who have been so completely suckered, that I call disciples. These are the people who have shown to be extremely gullible and easily manipulated.

They are such misguided believers that they become defenders of the sociopath, protectors from those persons they believe are trying to hurt their [sociopathic] friend  because of their popularity and success. They truly excel in living a life of denial, as well as setting a new standard for ignorance.

Note that the word ignorance  is based on the word ignore.  In my experience, that’s exactly what they do — they will ignore the truth. No matter how many times I stated that I held nothing but truths, all of which had substantiation (i.e., evidence), they still refused to look at the evidence. These disciples will lie to benefit the sociopath, and even spy for them. Yet they are so wrapped up and confused, that they truly believe that the bad people are the ones who are attempting to raise awareness.

Also, the disciples won’t even consider that they are being manipulated, used or suckered, nor do they believe they could ever be. They take it as a huge offense if they are told they are being used.

The disciples don’t believe that anyone they know is a sociopath, and the only bad people are those with false proofs.  Given their blind devotion, disciples are also very dangerous — just as sociopaths are — because the disciples will spy for the sociopaths.

How do I know this?

Unfortunately, this has all been learned through my personal experience growing up with sociopath siblings … and to make matters worse, marrying one.

If you’ve read my other posts here, you know that my oldest sister, Kathy, is a very malicious sociopath. It wasn’t until 2003, though, just after I turned 50, that a tiny slip-up led to her discovery. In the few short years since then, she was quite successful in maliciously destroying my character … so successful, in fact, that no one in my extended family will even reply to emails, let alone speak with me.

In July, I wanted to see if one of my cousins, Mary, had been sucked in, too, as I knew her older sister, Carol, had been. Since no one will speak with me, I needed to set-up something I could track. Before I began this site [Country-of-Liars], I put together another site with detailed substantiation, proving that my sister, Kathy, was telling nothing but lies about me. My stated goal was simply to clear my name.

I wrote a list-type email explaining what the site was about, and why I put it together. I also stated that I notified Kathy a week earlier about the existence of the site, but I had not heard anything from her. The email that I produce had all the appearances of being sent to a list, but in fact, I only sent to one person: Mary. It was all in perception … I wanted her to think she was sent it as part of a list.

Being a new site, it had few visitors, allowing me to see where the visitors were coming from.

The day I sent it to Mary, I had no visitors from her neck of the woods: Idaho — actually, if I had any visitors, there were no more than a few. The following day, though, the site got a lot of activity from one location — Mesa, Arizona. Coincidently, my sister, Kathy — the sociopath in question — lives in Mesa, Arizona. Kathy went directly to the URL I provided to Mary, and browsed the site for 35-45 minutes.

In turn, that makes Mary a disciple. Without even looking at a single page on the site, a site with nothing but substantiation to prove Kathy is a blatant liar, Mary forwarded the email to my sister, Kathy. She was protecting my sister, but from what? Truth? That’s all it had in it. Substantiated truth.

Why is it that people do not want to know the truth?

A sociopath’s revenge

Almost immediately, though, some very strange things began to occur. I have 16 years of Web experience, and nothing has ever come close to what happened over the next 10-days. Coincidence? I think not.

Up until I sent the email to Mary, googling my sister’s full name would bring up that site — the site I had just created about her — and list it on the very first page of Google results.

Between 24-48 hours later, that site quit appearing entirely in any Google search results on any page. Gone. Vanished. Blacklisted.

There’s no doubt in my mind that someone on the inside at Google had blacklisted it. I’ve never heard of Google doing such a thing, as I believe that would be called: censorship — not something that’s in Google’s corporate policy. As bad as that was, things quickly got much worse. I believe it’s called …

re-venge noun :: the desire to inflict hurt or harm in retribution.

I own and operate an award-winning Web site that has been online since 1995. It simply provides a free service in a vertical market … and it’s been my flagship site for about 15 years.

Three days after I sent the email to cousin-Mary, I received an email from Google at 2AM on a Saturday morning, an email that I did not see for another eight hours. It stated that one of Google’s bots (i.e., robotic PCs) that was visiting and indexing my flagship site, coincidently had been infected with malware (interesting, but “malware” is short for “malicious software”… and I have a very “malicious sister” who was probably behind it).

So to protect the general public from that malware, Google was notifying me that they were now blocking my site — something that had begun more than eight hours earlier.

Once Google blocks a site, all search engines do. Only one person has ongoing access to that site, and that would be me. The public cannot add anything to the site, and Google is my only advertiser on the site.

I included the advertising notation because Google’s block page refers to links that could go to sites intending to spread malware. Often, those links to the malware sites are advertisers links — albeit false and misleading advertisers — but just about the only links pointing out of my site are from advertisers. And all the ads on my site are fed through Google’s ad program … Google is my only advertising provider.

Google would not provide any details to me, such as where on my site the malware supposedly infected their computer. They were in no apparent rush to remove the block, even though I was unable to find anything malicious on the site. Even when I had other services scan the site, none of them could not find anything malicious, either, but they said it was their company policy that they maintained the block as long as Google did. I was getting that “Big Brother” feeling.

Apparent Sabotage

I awoke on day three to find my site was still blocked, so I called the corporate offices of Google. Have you ever tried to find a phone number for Google? I do believe it’s the one and only thing you cannot find by googling.

The person who answered said there was no one at Google corporate who could speak with me about the block, and then he even stated, with a bit of a chuckle, that Google can’t and doesn’t block sites. That’s precisely when I asked to speak with his supervisor. He told me he could not transfer me anywhere, and eventually he just hung-up on me.

Then, on day four, I got my biggest surprise. My Web hosting provider (DreamHost) is in the Los Angeles area, and has been my only hosting provider for the past four years. When I pulled up some records, though (curiously, on a Google page), those records indicated that my site was being hosted by two hosting providers — DreamHost … and very suspiciously, by Google.

Without obtaining my approval, nor even notifying me, someone had copied my entire site to Google’s servers … which means that one or more people inside Google had complete and unapproved access to my site … and what could be a legitimate reason? There is none. What could be an illegitimate reason? How about installing malware so as to sabotage the site?

They were able to do anything they wanted to, and then send a googlebot to get infected. At that point, the warnings and site block would kick-in automatically. How suspicious that this all took place while my site had been copied over to Google servers

I immediately inquired at DreamHost. It wasn’t until I showed them a copy of the page that they became believers. They never experienced anything like it, but, since it was Google, they did not know what they could do. Their feeling mirrored mine as something was not on the up-and-up.

I certainly doubt that all sites, world-wide, found to have suspicious software, would be transferred automatically to Google’s servers. That would be ludicrous. I was not supposed to see that information, and I’m sure someone was betting I wouldn’t. I was logged into my Google account, and was navigating through pages I’d never been to before, when I discovered the dual-servers … something so remote that I could have easily missed, as I did the first time I looked at the page. It was just a line of text, on a page filled with text, and buried in the middle of the page.

No one has ever been able to provide a legitimate reason as to why my entire site was copied over to Google servers. I was down for almost 100 hours, and as you can see, the impact was immediate, and potentially hurt me in the long-run, too. It certainly smells of revenge. It’s not something I ever felt that Google was officially behind. But having grown up in Silicon Valley, with family still living there — family who supports my sister Kathy — it doesn’t seem very remote that someone working for Google is a friend of my sister’s, or my cousin’s. At the very least, the activity was unethical and immoral, if not illegal.

ADDENDUM – MAR 2010: Although all this took place during the summer of 2009, it was still an unanswered question in my mind, as to why my site was copied to Google. And not just copied to a Google server, but it stated that my site was being hosted by Google, in addition to Dreamhost.

Enough time had passed that I decided to ask in Google’s Support Forums if what happened to my site was typical. Reading through the thread is eye-opening, as the very first person to respond, just another user, understood exactly what I was asking. But after that, I only got the run-around, attempts to derail my question, and suspiciously getting me to reveal the site I was referring to.

Yet the question was not, at all, site specific. It was a simple, general question regarding procedures — i.e., does Google do THIS, yes or no? Also, read the last entry in the thread, which is mine. Note what I asked, and how that brought everything to a stop.

Here’s THE GOOGLE THREAD.  NOTE: a Google account may be necessary to access their support forum.

Revenge is a sociopathic characteristic that I have personally felt the wrath of in many ways. I also discovered it as a diagnosed trait of my ex-wife, Julie, while reading her psychological evaluation. The clinical psychologist stated that Julie would justify even the slightest acts of revenge. My personal experience corroborates with the clinical evaluation. Julie was unpredictably violent.

When a sociopath feels the need to defend their public persona from being exposed as fake, their strategy (i.e., offensive-revenge) is usually to destroy their victim’s character, turning them into an outcast, which in extreme cases, could lead to severe depression and even suicide.

So a sociopath may not commit the violence themselves — especially if it would be geographically inconvenient — though they may lay down such an onslaught of heinous acts against their victim, that they could fully intend to drive that person to the person’s limit. They literally can destroy a person’s life, without a single night of lost sleep. They truly have no remorse, no guilt … if they believe it needs to get done, it’s just business.

The following occurred in early 1995, just as our divorce proceedings were winding down (after Julie threw in the towel, granting me full custody).

One Friday evening, as Julie was picking up the kids for the weekend, she let them run on ahead to her car, turned back to me, and while looking directly into my eyes and wearing a big smile, she casually slipped in a subtle death threat. She then turned and practically skipped back to her car. I don’t know what she saw in my eyes, but I saw very evil sincerity in hers.

I’ve been through more bad luck than most people ever face in this country, in a lifetime. And no, I don’t want pity. It’s rare when a day goes by that I don’t at least think about my own exit strategy.

Even though it has been 15 years since our divorce, Julie has done her most evil acts against me within the past few years — when I least expected it. Julie apparently was always waiting for opportunities, and based on time alone, I let my guard down.

What’s next?

After discovering the first sociopath in my life, all I did was open my eyes, research the Web to increase my knowledge and awareness, and discovered, quite easily, that there was more than just one. It also allowed me to look back and finally have answers … answers that fully explained the activities of certain people in my past … some I worked with, others I knew socially.

Due to their ability to charm and create a following, sociopaths are a natural for high places, such as politics, corporate executives, and Wall Street. You know at least one sociopath now, many throughout your life, as they’re some of the nicest, most impressive, not-genuinely charming people you thought you ever knew.

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Related Posts:
A family of sociopaths :: Part 1
Protect yourself from any sociopath.
Sociopaths are all the same … right?
What makes a sociopath so dangerous?
Psychopath/Sociopath: Similarities Outweigh Differences
Discovering Your Best Friend is a Sociopath
How do you spot a sociopath?
Identifying a Sociopath
AUDIO: Evidence from Recorded Phone Calls
Do School Administrators Help Young Sociopaths?

 

112 Responses to “What makes a sociopath so dangerous?”

  1. Michael Says:

    I am frightened. I’m 41 years old. My oldest brother has manipulated my family for 30 years. Sons of a wealthy doctor. I am the youngest. Mother is manipulated by the eldest (sociopath). I’m scared. He has put the entire family against me. Dad is dying. Marc the middle doesn’t talk to me. Nowhere to turn.

  2. Larry Says:

    Michael also wrote to me via my contact form, and I replied to him personally.

    I believe anyone who reads Michael’s words can clearly feel the desperation, if not outright panic, that Michael is experiencing. I know that exact feeling all too well, and unless you’ve been in that place yourself, no description can touch it. But I’ll try…

    • Imagine being invisible to everyone but yourself. You are alone in a world full of people who ignore you.

    • Think back to your worst nightmare … now imagine living it and never waking up.

    • Imagine being framed and convicted of murder … multiple people swear it was you. No one will listen to you, though, since as a “murderer” you are expected to swear your innocence.

    Now, add them all together. It is pure evil.

    Hang in there, Michael.

  3. Mandy Says:

    i know exactly what you are saying. it is amazing how they can get all these people in!! I started thinking I was going a bit nuts because it felt like a conspiracy!!! Every person I came into contact with that had had time contact with him were completely for him and completely against me. Now he has stolen my children and the judge just thinks he is the ants pants.

  4. Anna Says:

    I have always suspected my brother was a sociopath, he never calls me unless he wants something and has stolen from me many times in the past. I chose to ignore him and have never called him a sociopath.

    Recently I mentioned to my other brother and my mother that I suspected him of being a sociopath. Over the past couple of years he has been caught in lies by our family and they were starting to see how he really is without the charm. Now I find out today from my mother (just 2 days after mentioning he might be a sociopath) she calls me on the phone to tell me he has a brain tumor and he has 2-5 years to live and there is nothing that can be done about it.

    Naturally I cried and was upset bad, relationship or not, he still is my brother and I love him. I asked for details and everything started sounding fishy, he went to the hospital for a seizure two weeks ago and yet no one went with him not even his wife ?

    I am trying really hard to believe, but he has hurt me so many times and at one point had my family against me (I have since corrected this by just pretending to believe what ever he says and always admitting fault on my end no matter what just so that my family doesn’t ignore me or be mean.)

    My question…would a sociopath lie about dying to get everyone back on his side? By the way he has convinced my family and his wife that it is ok to have a wife and girlfriend at the same time, his girlfriend would even come to family functions with the wife.

    What should I do… should I just go along with it?

    Trying not to be heartless.

  5. Larry Says:

    Anna,

    Since you asked for advice, please read and understand the following paragraph before proceeding:

    Disclaimer: This site is not meant to diagnose, counsel or provide professional advice. It is only a candid journal of my real-life experiences. Therefore, these are just personal opinions, and nothing more.

    Apparently, a sociopath feels no emotions. From my experience, that would seem to be very accurate. That means the complete absence of guilt or remorse. It’s difficult to even imagine what that must feel like, though I’ve come to believe there is no limit to it. A sociopath will fabricate lies of any size or magnitude to achieve what they need to achieve. Nothing will get in their way.

    At least initially, it would seem not very difficult to determine the accuracy of the tumor claim. Using the Web, research brain tumors and find out how many tests would need to be conducted to receive a diagnosis of an in-operable brain tumor. How long would those tests take? How long would someone need to be in the hospital for that to be determined? How long was he in the hospital? Who was the oncologist?

    Ask him to explain more about the tumor, what type it is, where is it located, size, etc.? Ask him in-person, not on the phone — watch his reactions to your questions. Be prepared with your questions, i.e., formulate your questions from the research you conduct, but ask them in a casual manner. He likely would have been told a lot of detail with such a diagnosis.

    But what gets me is the wife and girl friend. To achieve that level of manipulation with his wife, specifically, brings back that concept of emotional emptiness. Love is an emotion that would seem he feels none of, nor does he feel any guilt in what he’s doing. It’s one thing if you heard he was having an affair, and another thing altogether if you heard his wife accepted it. But the boldness of bringing both of them to family functions leaves me speechless. Why does your family allow him to do it?

    From my own research and family history, APD, and the other personality disorders, are from a genetic factor. It’s hereditary. Have you determined which side of the family carries the bad gene? You may need to go back to your grandparents, since the parent with the gene may only be carrying it.

    Again, I need to emphasize these are just personal opinions based on very limited information that you provided. I am not trained to diagnose, counsel or advise.

    I do wish you luck.

  6. Larry Says:

    Mandy

    Somehow, I missed your comment. My apologies.

    What you describe is so foreign and unthinkable to virtually anyone who has not personally experienced the wrath of a sociopath. And because they can destroy someone with such ease, and such sincerity, they can actually earn people’s sympathy for how well they dealt with that innocent person they are destroying, based completely on their maliciously fabricated lies about them.

    Most people have limits. Sociopaths have none. Because of that, it’s virtually impossible to win against them. They have no intention of losing, as they have nothing to stop them. They will lie under oath with the same ease as ordering a pizza.

    Strange analogy, I agree, but have you ever felt nervous ordering a pizza? The oath means nothing to them.

    I know one sociopath who is very intelligent, shrewd and cunning. I know another who I would have to classify as plain stupid. Yet, both have their followers. Both can manipulate people to do and believe what they want. It’s the intelligent one, though, who is way more dangerous.

  7. Bella Says:

    My sister is a sociopath. She is 15 years older and has destroyed our relationship completely with her lies and abuse.

    She hurt my parents while they were alive with her torment, lies, stealing, and mental abuse. Since their death, she has moved on to me. After watching her destroy my parents while they were old and frail, I refused to deal with her anymore. I couldn’t stand to see how she treated both of them while they were dying – she hated them, always telling them that they loved me more than her. I loved my parents so much, they were both such wonderful human beings – I never understood why she was the way she was, until someone finally told me that they thought she was a sociopath. I couldn’t take what she did to both of my parents while they were dying so we had a huge fight and I cut all ties with her, finally telling her once and for all how I felt about her.

    To get revenge, she has spread malicious lies about me and my husband, continuously. My husband is a wonderful man and loves me and our children very much. Her husband in my opinion, is also a sociopath and has taught her through the years everything she knows (she married him when she was 18.). They/She tells everyone, family members and all of our friends, that my husband cheats on me, that I hate him, that he is cruel, that we are divorced, that I’m on medication…the lies go on and on and on. She has hurt me with her lies my entire life, always bullying me and threatening me with anything that could and would hurt my feelings.

    I am now in my 40′s and still, even after not speaking with her for the past five years, she still continues with her games, she continues to spread lies about me and my husband. Those that truly know me, know that she is insane and they don’t believe what she says, but she is ruthless and won’t stop. She is the meanest person I have ever met in my life. She has even gone as far as sending letters to everyone, spending hundreds of dollars sending anonymous letters to people, in order to spread more lies about me.

    Now that I know she is a true sociopath, I refuse to have anything to do with her. I would never let her harm my children, or even have them know such an evil person. How do I keep her away from me? Why doesn’t she just focus on her husband and her children since they are all so messed up and just as evil as she is? If she hates me so much, why doesn’t she stop doing things to get my attention?

  8. Janice Says:

    I wish I could just sit down and speak to you. This hits SO close to home.

    I’ve been in such turmoil over it too. My family too also bought into my sister in laws lies. I always wondered how is it possible that they would even believe her. I could never comprehend it, and it has hurt me over and over and over. I have recently started talking to this person again in thinking that people would stop thinking the things they do of me ( which by the way I have no idea what has actually been said about me.

    It must be bad though, because everyone in the family has treated me differently) I can’t even imagine the lies she’s filled their heads with, it’s really unbelievale to me. Oh if only we could speak….. anyways it’s been awful.) This person has actually even taken to using religion to manipulate, which works well on the people she’s been doing the manipulating too. My mother-in-law is a devout Jehovah’s Witness.

    I wish I could just pour my guts out on everything I have to say. It’s been such a nightmare. I am a very timid, extremely shy ( social anxiety disorder runs in my family) and I have never really stood up for myself over the years, so now I find myself in the difficult predicament of talking with her again on FaceBook.

    It’s so hard, she can be so nice ( btw- we used to be best friends, then I was able to distance myself from her, and now as of about 5 yrs. ago, she’s my sister in law just to give you a brief history) Do you have any advice??? Is being nice to her the only way to deal with her?? I am so conflicted.

    Everyone uses the Bible on me. I feel like I’m the monster sometimes as I was raised Catholic and went to private Catholic school. I just need someone to talk to that understands.

  9. Larry Says:

    My apologies … I see that I’ve fallen way behind in my responses. Life keeps getting in the way of my PTSD, and all the other unique ‘gifts’ sociopaths bestow upon us.

    I’m under extra stress right now from things that accompany a mortgage … like falling behind. I certainly fear homelessness more than I fear death.

    I’ll try to get back to everyone soon.
    Larry

  10. Bella Says:

    Janice,

    I think that your sister-in-law is using religion to persuade others to believe her lies because she knows that you are religious, catholic, and so is your family, so that would make them all believe her. A true sociopath actually studies their victims for a while before they start their “attacks”.

    She knows what to say to get people to be “on her side”. I know how you feel though because my sister has done that to me too. I am also religious and my sister knows how much my faith means to me. She always used to try to convince me that she believed in God sooo much so that I would stop and listen to her.

    The reality is that if you truly believe in God, you could never hurt anyone, or be evil toward them – especially your own family. I don’t think they know what love is and I know they don’t know how it feels so they can’t possibly believe in God. I have chosen to stay as far away from my sister as possible simply because of all of the pain and heartache that she has caused me and my family. If I were you, I would completely distance myself from my sister-in-law and have very little to do with her.

    You probably don’t want to lose your brother, so you are trying to just put up with her. But, you can have a relationship with your brother w/o having to talk or to deal with her. Just keep it short and simple with him because you know that he probably loves her. In time, he will most-likely be the one to come to you and tell you how much turmoil he is really in.

    It has to be so difficult to be married to someone that is so evil. Keep your conversations with her very short, always tell her you are just so busy and stressed and can’t really talk to her or do anything with her. Don’t let her know that you are on to her because then she will just be ruthless in trying to destroy you (as my sister has done). Keep your distance…hope this helps a little.

  11. Janice Says:

    Thank you Bella for talking to me about this.

    It is actually my husband’s brother. The family is so close to her and him. You see he has issues as well. He also lies a lot and has a criminal record of stealing. A couple of years ago everything hit the fan after she continually harassed me on Myspace. Somehow, she was able to twist everything on to me that really applied to her a million times over. When everything finally blew up, 2 days later, our hose was broken into and TV stolen.

    The police officer thought it looked like a crime of someone who was mad at us. It wasn’t the typical burglary. The VERY next morning, we received a message on our answering machine from her husband. He accidentally called and our house and was actually saying to someone, :you know about the TV thing, was mad sounding and then Said Erika deserved it. We tried having the detective listen to the tape and he said it could get thrown out as hearsay. So we couldn’t even get help that way, totally unbelievable sounding, trust me, I know. Well it’s pretty bad when nobody in your family believes it, even when they know he’s a thief!! My husband is a wonderful man, never done anything like his brothers. I don’t even know how he came from the same family.

    Anyways, we are now the outcasts because we don’t want anything to do with them and all they ever do is party. We don’t want to be apart of that, and it is then twisted onto me. My sister in law recently obtained a psychology degree by taking online courses. I read on a different site that this is also typical of a sociopath. She moves every six months to a year. She usually gets into places that she can live in for free. She has a couple of sisters who were foreclosed on and they moved out and let her and her family live there until they were kicked out. She is now a realtor again……..

  12. Janice Says:

    I’m sorry for all of the typing mistakes. I’m trying to get everything out and I’m not the best typist.

    I’d love to talk to you some more though. It’s just crazy to me how they can all get drunk all the time (my mother-in-law doesn’t drink, she’s a Jehovah’s Witness but she is at all of the parties they have, usually football related), partying and then claim to be religious. I really saw such a change in my mother and father in law though. They said things to me you could never imagine. Cruel things, I never saw it coming.

    It broke my heart…. And don’t get me wrong, I wrote things back to them, things that I had built up inside, but not like the things my father in law said to me. He even said a horrible comment about my kids going to a Catholic church and what could happen to them there. I’ll never understand, but we are on good terms with them now. They did apologize and so did I. It’s just hard to forget things like that. That’s my struggle. I want my kids to know them. They love their grandparents and so do I despite these things. It was all brought on by her. There was a time when they saw through it.

    The parents paid for her and their sons wedding. Later on, they found out it was a sham. They weren’t ever legally married after all, and basically the parents shelled out money for a big drunken party. They were furious at them for that, but they forgave them and now could never believe they could harm a fly. I think it mainly changed when she had their grandchild. Sorry for the rambling…..it probably doesn’t even make any sense the way I’ve been jumping from subject to subject. I just have so much to say, this is 10 years in the making….

  13. Suzie Says:

    I am currently married to a sociopath – going thru a divorce with him.

    I read, and re-read blogs, support forums, q&a’s, facebook, etc., but there is nothing one can say about how absurd a sociopath really is. It’s so easy to say “the have no empathy” but to understand & experience it is something entirely different. Imagine someone telling you the details he had on his McDonalds Cheeseburger, down to onions or not – before he even acknowledged you were in the room, much less your uncle had committed suicide the day before. Seriously, I got those details before he asked how I or the family was doing.

    Ironically after years of physical, emotional, and verbal abuse it took this one moment of realizing how he had absolutely 0, and I mean ZERO empathy, and was totally self absorbed that I made my decision to get out.

    I understand that is difficult to live with a sociopath. You are scared for your life, your future, your family, your existence. The cliche of “Breaking Free” is so true. The moment you take back your life, cut all ties, and move forward is a feeling like no orgasm can ever give you. Sorry for the sexual reference, but it’s the truest statement I can make.

    To anyone reading this site, even if you feel like you are with a sociopath – RUN. Don’t Walk. All the thoughts of “he’ll change, he’ll be different” – your gut already tells you. LISTEN TO IT.

  14. Phillip Says:

    The sociopaths I know tend to have a circular thinking process…an internal negative feedback system that seems to reinforce their violence and selfishness. They tend to see themselves as victims of the world…real or imagined so they want to destroy whoever comes in their path, and can justify their selfishness because after all “I’m only screwing over people who have hurt me so much!”

    I’ve noticed that they can be aware of other’s behavior but absolutely lack any insight into their own. They often see themselves as saviors of the people they are hurting or using. Of course when they run dry of money, the “saviors” find someone else “to save” LOL.

    Sociopaths tend to have self destructive habits in the extreme which is definately a sign of a lack of moral insight. People with minor self destructive habits such as smoking..etc. can come across as shady at times, but nothing in comparison to a full fledged sociopath who intentionally trys to portray himself as an angel of light.

    These people just want to destroy, and in time it will take a toll on their own bodies and psyche. But no matter what happens…if they get cancer, it’s just another opportunity to get people to feel sorry for them so they can hit them up for something. I have seen this type of thing.

    Yes, they are beyond help because of this circular thinking process … they think they are the victims!

  15. Kelley Says:

    My step daughter is a sociopath.

    For the last 2 years she had dragged us through her messed up life, and hurt us horribly. She has three wonderful children, and we loved them so much we put up with so much! Finally the father took the 2 girls, and we are trying to get custody of the youngest, a boy.

    Fortunately, she has been unable to turn the family against us, everyone except her sociopathic mother is helping us get custody of him.

    I just feel so bad, reading everyone else’s story, and I guess we are lucky, as our family could not be turned against us!

  16. Larry Says:

    Hi Kelley,

    Thanks for the note.

    You have no idea how lucky you are, and it’s best to keep it that way for yourself. I’m not ashamed of anything I’ve done in my life, yet I’m a pariah. Most everyone in my family is paranoid of me speaking the truth, so to avoid the risk, they turned it around and have most people believing I’m a paranoid.

    And who wants anything to do with a paranoid? They got their wish … I’m all alone in this world of shallow people.

    Best,
    Larry

  17. Michael R Says:

    I have a sister who has blatantly lied and feigned different illnesses for years. People in the family have taken up my sister’s cause. She needed a liver transplant 3 years ago.

    Now she supposedly has cancer and undergoing chemo. She never got a liver transplant. I understand they don’t give people who need a liver transplant, chemo, for they will die. Amazing recovery sis, or she is the only person on earth in liver failure for 3 years, undergoing chemo. She supposedly had 2 years to live. One year has gone by. I wrote my mother and let her know my sister is a liar.

    My mom knows, for this has been an issue ever since we were kids. My sister has also deceived my aunt, a nurse, who didn’t see my sister at this point, mails me to tell me that she doesn’t think my sister has the 2 years the doctors said because of all her symptoms. My sister looked on the net for symptoms and side effects and parroted them to my Aunt, who had the audacity to tell me how bad terminal cancer is. I didn’t need a nurse to tell me terminal cancer is bad. My mom had cancer 3 years ago and got a lot of attention. My sister wants that attention! My mom sent everyone on the planet an e mail about saving her daughter, and when my mom wanted me to join the insanity, I said my sister is a liar. That was months ago.

    I got pissed at that proclamation that my daughter has cancer. Well I guess i will never win. When she is alive and well in 10 years, she will have made a miraculous recovery again, and prayers have been answered. Because she was never sick! I know that when she made to be a liar, a lie would have become a truth, for they can’t admit she lied.

    They need to save face and make this lie become a truth. With me excommunicated from the family, she can do anything! I have no way to contact my family. I have to leave this whole sick business. I have to cut my family loose forever. I did love my mom however. I have to let my mom go also!

  18. Jenny Says:

    OMG Thanks for this site.

    I thought i was going mad but maybe i’m not. I took in a lodger earlier this year due to personal circumstances and he fitted the bill very well. He was so nice, interested in me, etc., but then things slowly changed. He started taking control over the house. He’s always late with his rent. I have to beg and he seems to enjoy this. There have been so many incidents that I cant write about them all but here.

    I bike to work and someone reported me to the police for having no lights. I was making conversation with him and he just smiled and said you would be really screwed without your bike … next day it had 3 tire punctures.

    He’s moved his gf in now. I don’t know how he managed that one but he told me the other week, while we were arguing, how much he hates me. He was screaming all kinds of abuse, like laughing because i have no parents anymore. All of his sentences start with “If I were you” or “we could” or “how about” … key factors in manipulation, I believe.

    He doesn’t speak of his family. He said he had a traumatic childhood. I feel so helpless because when we argue, he makes it all like it’s my fault. Then i feel so bad since there’s so many other things i find myself doing to please him. He scares me. He tells me he knows a hit man. I’m so confused. I’m not sleeping well, so any advice would be helpful, thanks.

  19. Larry Says:

    Jenny, I first need to address the format in which you submitted your comment (translated above), and why it took two months to appear. As you can probably see, I moved many of your words, corrected the grammar, fixed the spelling, added punctuation, made complete sentences, and deciphered your abbreviations. You just used your one-and-only fix-it coupon. Making it difficult to simply read will keep people from responding.

    Now, my response: it would seem to me that you need to evict your renter and not select another based on a personal interest: “He was so nice, interested in me, etc.”

    You as a landlady are running a business. To me, you made yourself vulnerable, and he took advantage of it. In doing so, you lost control. Then, you lost your business relationship, and began bickering as if in a personal relationship. I would bet you did not have a renter’s contract signed by both of you. Without that, he can take advantage of you much easier, and it will be much more difficult to evict him if he refuses.

    Get rid of him (give him a written 30-day notice), find yourself a good renter’s contract (on the Web, office supply stores, etc.) and make sure it covers the worst case scenario for any possible situation. If he makes regular threats, have a recorder on you, then take it to the police.

    Keep your relationship purely business. Run a background check — it’s not very expensive, and can be done on the Web. You do not want to allow someone to move into your home if they’ve been incarcerated, or it shows that they do not pay their bills.

    Good luck.

  20. Bonnie Says:

    I have an older sister who has made my every moment in my life an embarassing, hell wrenching, and overwhelming time.

    She is the pretty tall wholesome looking freckle faced blonde who modeled, finished university and she can do no wrong in our family. Makes sure everyone is on her side, conniving, compulsive liar, and clearly I have hit the point where I am incredibly terrified of her. ive let go of all my thoughts and excuses for her like everyone in the family continues to make of her just being “depressed but slightly maybe bipolar…just most likely depressed.”

    The entire family lets her walk around like a queen and annihilate my character due to the fact i was always the weakest in the family at standing up for myself, and because i got in trouble with the law at a young age…easily makes me into appearing like the over-sensitive, short-fused, ill tempered girl.

    This has weighed on my heart and my confidence for too long now… and i am so hurt that this is how my sister is. Im tired of the “shes just insecure and depressed” rebuttals from everyone in my family when they explain why she is so sabotaging and cold hearted and mean towards me. The reality is, she is 30 now…. she has had everything handed to her. and im tired of the depressed excuse. She is a university graduate with a boyfriend, lives in Florida, and is a teacher.

    There are no other excuses i can give myself anymore other than she is a sociopath. And what hurts the most is i know i need to remove her from my life, and I’ll be blamed by the family for the rest of my life. Sociopaths are incredibly dangerous, and will quickly bring you back into a ball of depression in the peaks of happiness.

  21. psycho sisters Says:

    @Bonnie – It is very hurtful to have a family member, especially someone like an older sibling (who should be caring and supportive) turn out to be plain mean, and have some kind of mental disorder. I know it can be depressing, but it’s the cards you’ve been dealt in life – sibling(s) with a mental disorder. You’re not alone.

    I’m not a doctor, but I’ve concluded that one of my older sisters is a sociopath – it’s a pattern of behavior that she has had from childhood – stealing, setting fires, constantly bouncing checks, stealing her best friend’s boyfriend and becoming physically involved and engaged to him (they broke up later), vandalizing and ruining an ex-boyfriend’s car because he broke up with her – she is an absolute control freak, and a master manipulator.

    All of her life she’s had financial troubles due to overspending, and until they died, she has taken money from my parents when she was overdrawn or when she needed a down payment for a house (for the record I did not ask or receive financial assistance from my parents). She has stole money and other things from all of her places of employment, and has never gotten caught. She says that “image is everything” – the most important thing in her life. She has spent thousands on plastic surgery, clothes, hair styling, etc and she is very attractive. She stole my entire inheritance (I never received a dime), taunting me that ‘the money’s all gone and there’s nothing you can do about it.’

    She spews the most verbally abusive language imaginable when trying to control someone, or venting her unpredictable rage. She physically attacked me and broke items in my home when I told her I would have to get an attorney involved to find out what happened to my inheritance money – she went on an abusive rant saying I was greedy and a loser and I was worth nothing. I am afraid she would kill me if I went for legal recourse on my stolen money. She has spread vicious lies that people believe because she is so convincing to her circle of disciples.

    She went bankrupt recently and rents a beautiful home that she wants everyone to think she owns. She tried to intimidate me into taking out a loan and get some credit cards against my home to give her money, and when I said no, she went on one of her smear campaigns against me. She also has the predatory look in her eyes when she’s scoping someone out to use…it’s really scary. Right now she is looking for someone to co-sign on a loan to buy another house…and she’s got that look in her eyes…She will stop at nothing to get what she wants and has no qualms about breaking the law or destroying people in the process.

    My advice – Have a circle of friends and support entirely separate from her. Surround yourself with kind people who are nice to you. If you live in the same area as the sociopath, don’t go to the same doctors, schools, church, etc. They will only use what ever you have in common (that includes family) to control, use and abuse you, and they will have nothing but contempt for you when they throw you in the trash. They will use embarrassment and humiliation to keep you vulnerable and silent. Stay away!

    Have firm boundaries. You don’t have to have them at your house because it’s Christmas. You don’t have to stay at their home when you visit because it’s “family”. You don’t have to kill yourself making dinner for your sister when she’s treated you like a door mat. Neutral territory is best, like a coffee shop, to meet. Or if they are still abusive, don’t meet at all. Family is supposed to be supportive and kind, and not abusive and spiral you into a depression.

    These socios will always have a circle of friends/family people who are their “disciples” – stay away from them as well.

    The socio will never change. Be careful on this one, because as abusive as their behavior can be, their strongest playing card is what a victim, poor poor me, they are. You might get the sweetest phone call out of the blue, when your guard is down, and unwittingly agree to meet and get caught back in the web of their power plays and deceit. ALWAYS have your guard up and remember who you are dealing with – they won’t change!

    Lastly, and this is most difficult – don’t let these self-centered abusive cardboard personalities get you into a depression – do everything you can – make extra efforts – to be kind and healthy to yourself.

    Don’t feel bad – I had to go out of town over the holidays because my sisters were coming in town – I had to leave to avoid them! My holiday was great, though, I was with the people who are kind and love me, and there were no lies, abusive behavior, etc. Living well is the best revenge.

    ps For the record my parents were very kind, reliable people and perhaps their only fault was always bailing out my sister (I remember my mother saying she would not let me sister go to jail) from her impulsive massive overspending, but I think they were afraid of her instability and rages, too. I really think that if it weren’t for the fact that my parents were so nice, she would be a killer or in prison by now.

  22. Larry Says:

    @ps: thank you for doing such a great job of addressing Bonnie’s comments. I’ve been ‘away’ for a while.

    Having real friends is so very important. Around the beginning of December, and very unexpectedly, I lost a true best friend. A German Shepherd I rescued in 2006 became paralyzed, and with just a four-day warning, I had to let him go; he went peacefully and painlessly. The diagnosis was a neurological disease.

    He was the most vicious dog I ever rescued, as he had been abused, neglected, and dumped in the woods to die. He was likely 3-5 years old when I got him. He was also a pure-bred German Shepherd — GSDs are fairly easy to tell.

    People would have considered him mean, as he growled, but he growled because he thought all humans were mean. Over a period of months, I successfully convinced him we weren’t.

    He began to trust everyone, even strangers when we were out, and savor in the attention and affection he received. He was extremely intelligent and loyal, and became my shadow. He became so gentle, that to wake me up, he’d give me a kiss.

    I recommend that every victim of a sociopath rescue a big dog, at least two-years old, shower it with love, and in time, some of that sociopath-driven fear will go away. Dogs know bad people, just like they know good ones.

    One of a dog’s additional senses is that they never forget an individual. Never, even after years. If your dog senses someone giving you trouble, he will respond immediately, but then, he will always be on guard with that person. And besides protection, they will give you more in devotion and companionship than any human is capable of.

    This is all very clear to me right now because of the huge hole in my heart. I’ve rescued dogs all my adult life (except when I was married and needed rescuing myself) and this is the first time I’ve had to euthanize a dog with virtually no warning.

    I miss him very badly. I’m down to one female rescue who’s been with me since 1998. During those 12 years, she never lived alone, as she always had at least one other canine companion. She’s suffering, too.

    I’ve never heard her cry before; but now I have. She even sleeps on his bed.

  23. michael Says:

    What a coincidence. Just put my Belgian Sheppard down. His name was Waffle. Had a heart of gold. Always listened to me, stood by my side, and never put me down like the rest of the family and their crooked attorneys. Miss him like crazy Larry. He truly was my best friend. Rescued him about 8 years ago. He had bad hips, and the winters here are brutal. He went in peace. Your not alone my friend. Hope all is well Larry.

  24. Matt Says:

    My heart goes out to all of you, who are dealing with these terrible circumstances. My situation is not as nearly as bad as some of your situations, but I was hoping that someone with more experience could give me some advice.

    I work in an environment controlled completely by my sociopathic boss. There are about 20 people in the company, and everyone except for me and one other co-worker are 100% (quoting the terminology in the above article) “disciples” of the sociopath. My colleagues are his manipulated slaves, and will defend and praise him until the very end of their lives. (literally, as some of my colleagues have been working under him for 20 years or more!)

    This specific sociopath is extremely intelligent, and is obsessed with his control over in the office place, and also controlling personal lives. I have been slaving away in this hostile environment for 2 years, because of the bad economy, and will finally be free in 5 months when I move overseas, and put this behind me.

    However, even though these poor souls are now his disciples, it still hurts me to see them suffer in that environment. Is there anything I can do to make the next 5 months easier for me, and to help my colleagues after I am gone? I have been trying to think like the sociopath, in order to understand how it’s mind functions.

    What I generally do to help my colleagues is to put an idea in their head, that there are “other opportunities out there”, and “other people work in better environments”. Basically, just making suggestions that they would not run and report back to him (yes, they spy for him!). This seems to have worked in the past, as several people have quit in the last year the second they found another job. Is there anything else I can do?

    Thank you very much in advance for any suggestions, and I wish you all the best!

  25. Larry Says:

    Matt,

    Don’t be a hero. It’ll only take saying one thing suspicious to just one person, and he’ll be on to you. He’ll likely get the disciple to play along, to find out more about your knowledge and what you’re spreading.

    Unfortunately, those “poor souls” made their own decisions, and are on their own. You have little, if anything to gain. Stay low until you leave. Be safe.

  26. Rocky Says:

    Thanks for the site. I now know who my mother really was.

    I found this site surfing about parents stealing inheritances. Yep, she stole mine and I have proof and contacted a lawyer as much good as it will do. She was judged incompetent and I’m finally making sence of the anger and frustration from being her son.

    She really screwed up my life and family while I took care of her for the last 20 years. I’m torn because I believe it’s an illness and she’s not responsible there’s nothing I can do that would change anything.

    But now I know that she definatley is a sociopath to the max.

    Thanks for the site and all the comments. I always knew there was something very wrong with her.

    Rocky

  27. Larry Says:

    Rocky,

    Sorry for my delayed reply. I know the anger and frustration all too well. I’m fighting a similar battle, yet I don’t believe there will be any retribution. I hope better for you.

  28. Debbie Says:

    Wow! All this sounds so familiar! I have delt with TWO sociopaths in my life. One female (a former friend) and one male, a sibling. They are a lot alike.

    It seems the females also like to go after you themselves with their entourage while males like to “recruit” others to do their dirty deeds while they sit back and laugh. It sucks and I know exactly where you are coming from as I am currently dealing with a family situation.

    The rest of my family are ignorant and has no idea how dangerous a sociopath really is.

  29. Bessy Says:

    Matt,

    I think that you are a wonderful person, but as Larry said; don’t be a hero. Those people made a choice, it is not up to you to save them. You have something that your boss does not have: a conscience! if you still want to help, try being friendly to your colleagues.

    After you leave you can let him/her know how well you are doing (from a far distance of course). Seek the one that spreads the word, maybe you will inspire some people to take a chance as well. Nut, my best advice for you is to run and leave it all behind.

  30. Christina Says:

    I am so glad I found this page, it really makes me feel less alone. My sister is a sociopath and I just figured it out about a year ago, finally put 2 and 2 together. She is 28 years old and just got married for the second time in 3 years. She has endangered my children and tried to get them to lie for her on several occasions.

    My parents refuse to see the evidence of her behavior and believe every last lie she tells. They stand beside her and act as though she needs “protection” from me, which is LUDICROUS. I honestly just quit talking to her last July, I tried to have a meeting with my other sister and parents about her behavior and possible mental issue but they refuse to see it. It is very frustrating. I did not attend family holiday gatherings this year because I am refusing to be around her for my sanity and my childrens well being.

    I guess I am lucky because for the most part my extended family can see right through her, she has hurt many of them. We just celebrated two huge family events, a graduation and a wedding. To both of them my mother, father and other sibling walked in with my sociopath sister and her new husband, sat with them, and refused to even talk to me while she was there. They barely spoke to my children. So thankfully my extended family knows what is going on, because I am sure to most people it looks like I have done something wrong and they are against me. It is SO frustrating and causes me SO much emotional pain and suffering. I feel like because I have chosen to not be around a sociopath I have lost my mother, father and good sister.

    I have friends who keep saying, well eventually they are going to figure it out, but I really do not feel optimistic about that.

  31. Ann Says:

    OMG, I am so happy to find this site…..I have a brother that I believe is a sociopath….he has been a liar and manipulator since early teens…he is actually my half brother, my dad remarried. I am 61 and was a young teen when my dad had 3 more children…so over the years I saw this behavior blossom.

    Fast forward to the present, after years of verbal abuse from my brother and watching him kiss up and manipulate my parents….I finally stopped speaking to him about 6 years ago….his wife finally left and divorced him for the same reasons….she just could not take the verbal abuse…..and of course when she left him my parents had nothing but horrible things to say about her.

    I had to speak up and try to tell my parents the truth…..but to my surprise….my parents said they don’t want to hear anything bad about their son……which is what they said to me when I told them why I wasn’t having anything to do with my brother anymore.

    So right now because I spoke up about my brother……I am now out of the will……it’s just amazing to me…and of course hurtful that parents make the choice to be blind….or better yet…make the choice to not see.

    I so understand the emotional highs and lows that people can go through when you have family members that are so mean and evil…this has been so hurtful to me…..I had to get myself back together and move forward in life….so I disconnected from my dad….I am mentally trying to reassure myself that I am not the bad person…and even though no one in my family will talk to me, or believe anything I say….I take relieve in conversations with my x-sister-in-law…she knows the truth….

    It is all so sad that my parents don’t want to hear anything bad about their son, especially late in life, my dad will pass away with the thought that I am a trouble maker…..

    My prayers go out to anyone that is dealing with a family member that is a sociopath…..and thank you for having this site !!!!

    I am certain that it has helped others !!

  32. Christina Says:

    @Ann…..I also speak to my sisters ex, I feel like there aren’t a lot of people who see a sociopath for who they really are, and I agree it is for my own sanity that I talk to him. The really sad thing is, while we are emotional distraught by the mess that has become our family, our sociopathic siblings could care less and have lost NO sleep over it. Hang in there.

  33. Sean Says:

    Hey-just wanted to say thanks for the site.

    I’m working in the entertainment industry, and had dealings with a sociopath that left me with major career and reputation damage. this guy acts exactly as you described: loved by everyone, does volunteer work, the perfect person..until he gets a few drinks in him and no one else is around except “his people”, then the dark side comes out. we shared an agent, this person and I, and strange things began to happen.

    agents got very hinky with me; they started to (literally) question my identity, birther-style, while, coincidentally, this guy was doing exactly the same thing. crazy rumors about me surfaced, while, coincidentally, this guy was asking me questions that dovetailed with those rumors. there was definite linkage, and this guy was behind the whole thing.

    he wanted me to sell weed for him; he gets it from oregon, and wanted me to mule it down to L.A. for him (major weight). he’s an extreme right-wing republican, I’m a black independent. race, I think, has a lot to do with why I was his target. recently found out (this is after I ended our friendship), that he was telling people I was his sidekick, not really a friend at all. that agent dropped me, and my rep is in tatters all over hollywood, and this guy is at the center of it.

    the real question is, how do you stop someone like this, without going extra-judicial?

  34. Ann Says:

    Thanks Christina:

    It was when I finally realized the very true fact that you mentioned…..the sociopathic siblings don’t care and in fact they feel power because of the control that they have over the situation……they have lost NO sleep over this…..

    When I made that realization……I was able to disconnect….when I read blogs like this one…..I am validated. Joy to you.

  35. Susan Says:

    I have 2 sisters who are lying, manipulative, miserable freaks who use their every waking moment to create havoc in the family. One is certainly a sociopath – the other just a pathetic drunk, but they support one another in a twisted drama that casts them as virtuous saints, victims of my alleged sanctimony. It was always there, but its worsened over the years, especially after our mother passed away. It began to deteriorate when my mother became sick with terminal cancer.

    The doctors told us she had a few weeks but Mom decided she wanted to try anything. There was no chemo that would cure her terminal cancer and radiation could only shrink her tumours. She decided that she wanted to try alternative medicine, with the radiation. Through extensive research, I discovered a clinic in our town that had could results with simple treatments (nutrition, counseling, herbal remedies, etc). Nothing crack-pot and nothing dangerous. They didn’t promise cures and they didn’t even charge (we are in Canada, and at the time, the clinic was attached to a hospital looking at alternative and complementary treatments for cancer, alongside the usual medical practices).

    As sisters we all agreed we would care for our mother on a rotating basis, with a homemaker taking care of the housekeeping, etc. We all agreed Mom would move into town, my daughter got her an apartment overlooking a beautiful park. Well, it all changed once Mom came to town. My sisters and their daughters wouldn’t look after Mom as agreed (though one sister would on occasion and with great fanfare so everyone would think she was so wonderful). That was wrong, but if that was what they wanted, fine. But that wasn’t enough for them.

    They told other family members (brothers, sisters-in-laws, cousins, etc) that I was denying our mother chemo (though my sisters were in the doctor meeting where the oncologist told us all there was no chemo cure and in fact the chemo would reduce Mom’s quality of life and Mom was clear she didn’t want chemo). They told the family that I was keeping them for caring for Mom, even though I begged – literally begged them to relieve me so I could get sleep, get back to my work, see my family, have a break.

    One sister showed up over thanksgiving drunk, and told my husband that she couldn’t wait for the old lady to die. In fact, that same sister called our mother one day and told her to “die already” (I was there – my Mom went all white and started to cry). Of course my sister denied it later and told others I lied about her saying that. They did everything they could to make my mother miserable, when it would’ve taken them less time and energy to simply sit with her and talk.

    I gave her enemas, found her an alternative medicine that allowed her to eat somewhat without vomiting, took her to her radiation treatments, took her to touch therapy, took her for walks by the ocean, sang songs, remembered good time and dreamed about the future when she got better. I would plan dinners and no one showed up. I would ask for help with buying or donating a few items and nothing. And I’m only giving a very brief account of the many ugly events.

    So, Mom lived almost a year and at one point the doctor said he couldn’t believe it, her tumors were shrinking and breaking up. But that wasn’t good enough, they had to step up their evil, ugly ways and the tumors grew and Mom died. At the funeral many of Mom’s friends came up to me and told me that me and my brother (who cared for Mom out-of-town) were the only 2 she could rely on that last on and the only 2 she felt unconditional love from.

    I tried to keep somewhat friendly with one of the sisters (the one who at least showed up) but gave up after a few years. There was another sister as well, but she has manic depressive issues, so she had a reason for being unreliable and she tired to help in her own way.

    So fast forward a few years. Yes, I became a little sanctimonious but only after years of being shunned by everyone and the various whispers (as well as my daughter and husband). I gave up a year hoping Mom could survive for all of us and our families. She was a kind, fun grandmother and a good mother. Yes a little quirky and erratic, but we were her life and she didn’t drink or run around (she was a single parent as our Dad was often away, had drinking issues and died youngish from drinking).

    She wasn’t abusive or mean. The only thing you could say is that she was emotionally needy as she got older, but no more than other people’s moms. It seemed they blamed her b/c we were poor growing up (mostly we were on welfare) but she worked hard, we always had food on the table, the house was always clean, she was always happy and she liked being a Mom.

    At some point the sociopathic sister started to rear her ugliness. Despite their campaign to discredit me and marginalize me in the family, people still liked to hang-out with me, especially the nieces of my brothers. I’m respected in our community because I work hard, I’m ethical and “kind and unassuming” (as someone said to me one day) and I’m respected in my profession. And I still wanted to be a decent sister, so I managed to get the sociopathic sister a job (even though she was always talking about herself and everything was about her) but I felt sorry for her in some ways.

    In my field I was asked if I could recommend someone for a pretty good opportunity. I gave the people a number of names, including my sister, who I told them was my sister. long story short, they hired her based on my recommendation. (though at some point they did question her ability and I lost some credibility with those people. But Mom also asked be to help that sister if I could). So despite the rocky beginning, my sister managed to forge a mediocre career. But that wasn’t enough.

    The whisper campaign was stepped. Family who were friendly stopped being so. But, I have other friends and family who are connected and so whatever. It is hurtful but I’ve been there before with them. But about a year ago one of my nieces said that the two evil sisters where planning something, as if a warning or perhaps a threat (that niece is their camp and is a drinking companion to the drunk sister). So the result. the sociopathic sister is sleeping with the CEO of a company that I have successfully done business with for years and years. I now no longer have any business with them. And I’ve been told from insiders that it might get worse.

    My sociopathic sister tells people I’m just jealous of her success (though I am very successful so what is to be jealous of?). It hurts to know that she has deliberately caused so much damage in my career after I gave her hers. There are other things, but I really just needed to say this. I’ve been holding onto it for years. I saw a counselor for a time and he says that I have to get out of their pattern of victim and/or oppressor (my sociopathic sister plays the victim very well).

    She lies to her husband, to her daughters and son, to her colleagues, to the everyone. If she put the energy she does into lying and playing games into actually developing some talent she would be a lot further ahead than using games, sleeping around and parading a rather shallow take on the world. And I’m not the only one – she is also on a campaign against anyone who has crossed her, disagreed with her, etc over the years. It’s as if she thinks that if I do something well it is just to make her look bad.

    Well, that is all I can say right now. It hurts but I’m trying to find that other path, not the one that has been played out in my family for too long. Good luck to all of you who have to suffer through the ugliness and cruelty of their family members. I wish you light and beauty. I know it is real.

  36. Larry Says:

    Hi Sean,

    You’re welcome … I’m glad it helps put things into perspective.

    How do you stop someone like that? It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Going the legal route can make it even worse. Being under oath means nothing to these people.

    The first thing you should do is remove him from your life. Change your phone numbers, move if you need to, begin associating with people who do not know him … in essence, start over. At first, it may seem overwhelming, but as he loses the ability to contact you, things will begin to ease. He will move on to new targets.

    Unfortunately, there is no definitive answer. The more you increase your knowledge, the stronger you become. Many of the comments on this site provide excellent insight from other people’s perspective. Believe in yourself and take one day at a time.

    Hang in there. It may get worse before it gets better.

  37. Larry Says:

    Hi Ann,

    I’m glad you found this site, too. I couldn’t agree with you more about the impact from family members suffering from ASPD or NPD. Discovering that those we should feel the closest to are lying to us and about us, using us, and targeting us. Then on top of it all, the blind followers in the family believe their lies and turn their backs upon us, too. Very shallow and gullible people.

    I have lost all my family and many of my friends, and I don’t expect any change during my lifetime.

    Thanks for sharing your story.

  38. NoOffenceBut Says:

    No offense but making a web page to defame somebody’s character is a behaviour I personally would not condone. Don’t lower yourself to this girl’s level. If she is a negative influence in your life, then cut off contact. I’ve wanted to get revenge against an abuser, but I find that absolute severance of contact is the only way to liberate yourself from harmful influence. Geographic distance is a blessing. Also, google has a cache service that makes a backup copy of every website that shows up in a search, so if someone searches your website in google, even you, then it gets backed up.

  39. Larry Says:

    First off, I’m not easily offended. You accused me of “defaming somebody’s character” but character defamation is what psychopaths do. And if I actually did defame someone’s character, who specifically would that have been?

    I am not lowering myself to “this girl’s” level, as you proclaim … what is this girl doing that I am replicating? And just to clarify, I’ve cut-off contact with all included characters many years ago.

    I appreciate your opinion, but lets cut to the chase. I do not know enough about you to determine what your knowledge base is. Then there’s that issue of normal people. The fact is that there is no such thing as a normal person, we are all wired differently but still mostly get along.

    Therefore, the way you would tackle a specific issue has zip to do with how I would accomplish that same task. Who’s to say which one is right and which is wrong. I’ve modified my strategies several times based on previous experience, by fine-tuning and tweaking.

    As many psychologists suggest that keeping a daily journal can be a very effective means by which to accelerate one’s recovery. That’s all this: it’s my journal that I write online instead of in a notebook. So in retrospect, if I were to start this all over again, I’d do very little differently. It’s been very successful for me, and helped many others.

    With my method, I’ve pieced together far beyond what I ever had imagined.

    And in closing, web page archives began in the late 1990s. For a person to find an archived page, they would need to know how to find the current page, too.

    PS: It is required to use a legitimate email address when posting … our security and your privacy is a top priority. I have your IP address and country of origin on record. This will be your one free pass. Please use required information next time or I’ll be forced to blacklist you. You can’t get notified of a response to your post without a real email address. ;)

  40. Julie Says:

    I can sympathize with each and every one of these stories as I can relate to nearly all. One thing I’ve discovered, it doesn’t matter how many times you’ve been burnt by these people, they will still pull the wool over your eyes, again and again.

    I am 42 y/o, and consider myself well versed and experienced in the field of psychopaths and sociopaths. I am currently studying psychology after being in various relationships with sociopaths. I can only say that I am confident in my ability to recognise the warning signals early on, however that’s not to say that I won’t be burnt.. like my most recent experience.

    Rather than go into detail, as many experiences with sociopaths are so mind destroying, that to explain the scenarios that have occurred, it would take countless pages to recount them. However this is my recount of the most recent. I am fairly new (18 mths), in the area and at the local school. I am also a private person and take my time in getting to know people. I don’t get involved in group dynamics and I don’t do the bestie thing. It takes time for me to form friendships with people, based on past experiences of being burnt.

    I have come to discover recently, that I was considered to be a hard nut to crack, by one particular sociopath mother at the school. I had recently come out of depression from the loss of a family member, and I see now that she preyed on my vulnerability and took me under her wing. She is a ring leader type mum, who I never would have gotten involved with once upon a time, however the sympathy she showered on me, but not in pity form.. rather, constantly inviting me out, texting me niceties and sharing her so called compassion of my plight.

    We ended up on a spiritual journey together, only to leave me disillusioned, hurt and somewhat damaged after a whirlwind 3 months of manipulation, deceit, lies, character defilement behind my back and stealing my very ideas and blatantly saying they were hers. These lies have only recently come out after she began an affair with another so called spiritualist, who during a so called healing, defiled my character leaving me with a blow lack of esteem and mild depression. I have only recently found out the lies she has told.. and they are enormous.

    It explains why so many mums never made the effort to talk to or get to know me. Some would even blatantly ignore me, and well.. I never made the effort either, as she was feeding me little bits and pieces about them too. She had developed her affair with this “healer” before my knowing, and had fed him rubbish about me and my life, which led to him showing his charlatan ways, and stating that I try too hard in everything I do etc. This knocked me for 6, and now that I’ve since found out the truth, I cannot believe that I have been burned YET AGAIN, by a sociopath.

    The point of this story is this.. it doesn’t matter how well versed you are on their traits, you just never know these people until you have actually experienced them. All I can say is, listen to your early gut instincts. If something doesn’t feel right in the beginning, listen!

    The happy ending to this story is this.. sociopaths will always slip at some point on their egotistic rise to fame. All they need is a little hand up, and watch their downfall unfold. Due to this woman’s affair, which also led to finding out this “healer” is a predator, people have woken up to her ways through her promotion of him throughout facebook and other materials so she goes down with him. Unfortunately, like all sociopaths, she has her disciples that will stick with her throughout the end. These very people actually condone her unhealthy affair, with 3 little kids left at home. Unbelievable to watch, but very very real.

    I agree with other hints from people that say, “don’t walk from these people.. RUN!”. But do it in a way that lets them think you haven’t seen through them, or they will set out to damage you more. Good luck to you all, God bless. Have faith, because good always comes out of bad.

  41. Steve Says:

    Hi Larry,

    I just read this entry, and all the comments, and felt compelled to write yet another comment to your site.

    My sister just pulled another on me. Although she waited 4 years to do it. I’m the guy who has a sister, a mother, and ex-bandmate, ex-boyfriend and 2 ex-bosses that are sociopaths.

    My father passed 4 years ago this month. When asked if there was anything of his I wanted, I said I wanted his badge when he was a police officer in our hometown. My step-mother and all my siblings said fine. We couldn’t find the badge. When my 2 sisters and I went back to my step-moms to really go through all the boxes and things that she didn’t want, or was not allocated in the will, the badge still wasn’t found. I thought it was lost to history.

    Last month at my nephew’s party, my younger sister (who is the sociopath) who hadn’t spoken to me for two an a half years came up to me and said ‘I have something for you, but I wasn’t sure you’d be here, so I didn’t bring it with me’. I thought it was a set up. “I found dad’s badge in a box I had…” At this point i did not react but just listened, as my other sister and my date that I had brought overheard this conversation. ”Do you live in the same place? I’ll mail it to you…” Then I knew it was a set up. It was like all the times she’d borrow things from me then threaten to destroy them or give them away while we were growing up, and even as a young adult. Even my brother did not believe she would send it.

    About a month later a package appeared with the badge inside. there was no note, no nothing. And as always from any sociopath, there is NO APOLOGY… EVER…

  42. ALVK308 Says:

    Hi i also need help with my sister she is going out with this chic and all the signs point to her being a sociopath. I never got it before i knew i didn’t like her and there was something wrong with her but i couldn’t pick it straight up untill a couple of weeks ago. I have been taken by a few people but it has only made me stronger. But for my sister she is really nieve and can’t see that she is being manipulated and played like a fiddle.

    There have been a few incidences that gives me proof that she is trying to destroy my family and have my sister to herself. The worst part is that she is believing all of it.

    My sister has been living with me for 3 years and this chic arrived on the seen 8 mths ago. She has tried to set up my brother by putting a needle in his friends house. In they babys room that was neally due and caused him to lose a 30yr friendship.

    She tried to set up my niece by stealing my work licences and putting them in her room. Too bad we are so close that i knew it wasnt her and also she wasnt there the night they went missing.

    I am not sure what to do i am not sure if she is violent i don’t want to OUT her in fear of revenge. I had to kick my sister out because this chic had a key to MY House and i have no idea what she is capable of.

    The worst thing is i cant tell my sister what she is because she wont believe me. She has her so brainwashed that my sister thinks that i don’t do anything for her and i treat her like shit. Little does she really know that i have done alot for my sister. But the problem is now my sister is starting to believe all her lies and i am not sure what to do?

    I want to save my sister and tell her what she is but it is too late she is already past the point of no return. I am scared she is going to lose everything she has been working hard for all these years.

    PLEASE HELP HOW DO I MAKE MY SISTER REALISE SHE IS DATEING A SOCIOPATH!! please give me any tips on how to squash a sociopath and save a gentil sole.

    Thanks in advance if anyone could help me please!

  43. Cathy Says:

    Hi Larry, just wanted to say that I am fascinated, and at the same time horrified, reading your site. I came across it while trying to find out more about sociopathy. I got interested in the topic while watching the Casey Anthony trial. I could not believe how quickly the lies could flow from her mouth and how she seemed to have convinced herself that her stories were true. And right up until the last minute where she knew one of her stories would be proven to be a lie!!! My jaw dropped from the sheer nerve she displayed!

    Anyhow, the reason I’m writing is to see if you’d ever heard of a website called the ExperienceProject.com (type in “I Am A Sociopath” at the Search prompt). I came across it during my searches and I found some of the stories to be quite interesting. I have to say I find MOST of the stories to come from scarred or unbalanced people who are probably not sociopaths, but there are some stories that shed some light on the way a sociopath thinks.

    Some leave me with chills down my spine. I know most sociopaths would never want to be exposed in real life, but through the anonymity of the internet, they seem to like to “brag” about a trait which they feel gives them an advantage in life. I’ve found this gives me a bit of insight on the “enemy,” so to speak. Here is one example of a post that seems to offer some of that insight: experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Sociopath/1736813.

    I honestly feel that I’ve not encountered too many sociopaths in my life. I guess I’ve been lucky but I am getting older now and worry about being taken advantage of. I figure that having as much knowledge on my side that I can will help me continue to avoid them (hopefully). Although from reading your site I gather that even the most intelligent can be duped.

    So I’m just de-lurking to thank you for this blog, to wish you luck in your avoidance of all the sociopaths in your life and to ask what you think about the above website in giving insight to the sociopathic mind.

    Oh, I’ve also read The Sociopath Next Door. Hopefully, I’ll be well-armed should I come across one of these soulless bodies.

  44. HELP Says:

    My mother, grandmother and two brothers are sociopaths …. I was abused as a child by a step father my mother knew about it and instead of doing anything about it she told everyone I seduced her husband ( It started when I was 9 continued until I was 14) she even told people I preferred OLDER MEN ….

    My brother is a career criminal who has been in and out of prison biut my family treats him like he is a KING my other brother is a MOMMA’S BOY he is basically her main DISCIPLE and acyually carries out recon for her games ….she is a medical professional and so everyone thinks she tells only the truth SHE IS NOT CAPABLE OF TELLING THE TRUTH ..

    I am scared , my life , my marriage , my finances have all been compromised she steals from her husbands family and blames it on me she lies to cover her dangerous behavior and the dangerous behavior of my brothers ….she has stolen and lied and framed me for it …my grandmother is in on it also co-signing everything she they say in a collaborative method to make me look crazy and to discredit me I fear I will soon be dead or incarcerated die to their criminal behavior ….

    it’s amazing how they can rally a community against one person , she even said that she can get away with killing someone and the police would do nothing because they “know” her ans indeed she has many dr’s ,lawyers, and law enforcement that she regularly deals with and hangs out with ….its amazing

    I FEAR FOR MY LIFE AND I FEEL IF THEY DONT KILL ME THEY WILL SET ME UP AND NO ONE WILL EVEN LISTEN TO MY SIDE

    She has taken my children and now they will not speak to me ….my husband is now her DISCIPLE and I am afraid of him also

    I am living in fear …HOW CAN THESE PEOPLE TAKE EVERYTHING FROM YOU AND SABOTAGE YOUR WHOLE LIFE ??

    HELP …I NEED HELP ON HOW TO ESCAPE AND REGAIN MY REPUTATION AND LIFE / KIDS / CAREER

  45. Larry Says:

    Hi Cathy.

    Thanks for your kind words

    There are quite a few of sites where individuals claim to be psychopaths or sociopaths, yet few have convinced me. Sort of like you said, I believe the popularity of the “sociopath” brings out the potentially abuse, or just the egotistical who are out to shock those reading it, and get their fifteen minutes of fame.

    The one highlighted story you included seems like it was coming from a fraud, or just one messed-up individual. Some of his “facts” were way off base.

    I wouldn’t be so sure that you haven’t come across many sociopaths in you life. Most, by far, are not incarcerated. Those are the extreme cases. The far majority live amongst us. The theorized percentages vary widely to four out of a hundred, to 20%. Most are unaware of what they are dealing with. Most also suffer from other mental disorders.

    I recently came across a blog of a self-defined sociopathic female. Her blog would be considered x-rated. She says she’ll answer any questions at all, so I posed an easy one: if she though there was any difference between a sociopath and a psychopath.

    Her answer somewhat contradicted itself. I ask for clarification, but never received it. I then asked more personal questions: what makes her sexual desires any different that any other sexual being (she had already stated she was not into masochism, dominance or submission), and lastly I asked her if she could love any one.

    Even though she was completely anonymous, and stated she’d answer any question, she did not answer any of my follow-ups. I became ignored. Her blog is certainly set-up for shock value. In case you’re interested, she can be found at: psycho-cunt.tumblr.com :: as I said her blog can be considered shocking and perverse.

  46. Larry Says:

    @ HELP

    You sound as if you are surrounded. The best thing you can do is read as much about the disorder (such as throughout this site and others), increase your knowledge, and find yourself a good psychologist. I say good because some dont have any experience in psychopath.

    When you select one, spend your first 1-3 sessions analyzing the analyst. Make sure you are a good match, and that the therapist understands what you are going through. If there’s anything that makes you question the therapist’s capabilities, go find another one. You don’t need someone telling you that you need to take part of the responsibility.

  47. Cathy Says:

    Hi Larry, thank you for your reply and taking a look at that website. I hate to say this but you seem like an expert in this area and I really wanted to get your opinion on it. As you say, I think most of the stories are by attention seekers just out to get their 15 minutes of fame, even if it is from other unbalanced individuals.

    After reading more of your blog you are most likely right that I’ve encountered more sociopaths than I realize. Scary to think that. I’ve worked with many bosses that sound like the therapist’s wife. No doubt, even people like your sister. I guess I’ve been lucky that they don’t pick me as their target. Usually, I’m quiet and mind my own business. I’m sure I seem like a downright boring individual to them!! (I really shouldn’t admit to that!) So I mind my own business and stay out of their way. In fact, I have been known to say to myself “stay away from that one” or “don’t get on his/her wrong side” a few times. Perhaps without even knowing, my conscience was warning me of a sociopath.

    Anyhow, I’m going to check out that site you mentioned and continue to read all the entries on your blog. Some of them leave me speechless. I wish you peace and quiet in your life as quickly as possible!

  48. Larry Says:

    Hi Cathy,

    Thank you. If you consider me an expert, it’s because I received my training in the worst possible way. I grew up being told I was a good-for-nothing, stupid, and was constantly physically abused. Throughout my childhood, I pretty much believed it. It was my dear beloved mother who gave me any hope.

    Then at the age of 29 I got sucked in my a woman’s persona and married her … I thought it was love. At the time, I was ripe to be totally manipulated. And it passed to my kids.

    Be careful, as you can always become someone’s target. They sweep you off your feet, whether male or female. They are so calculating and perform like an academy award winner.

    Take care of your self. Again, thanks. :)

  49. Larry Says:

    @ Steve …

    Your story sounds similar to one I have. My great-uncle had been knighted by the Pope. What was left from that event was the precious metal sword adorned with gem stones. It was gorgeous.

    Whenever I visited my folks on the opposite side of the country, my dad would bring it out and tell me he wanted me to have it, and told me to take it back with me. Laughingly, I told him I didn’t think I’d didn’t think I’d pass with it as a carry on, nor would I risk checking it. I told him we needed to Fedex it. He brought it up every time I was there, but we never got around to shipping it.

    When my dad died, my brother, the psychopath-executor said he had nothing in writing to give it to me, so he kept it for himself.

  50. HELP Says:

    Thank You for responding and taking the time to believe me , no one in my circle does and that’s the hardest part ,when people think all you want is “attention” all I really want is to be left alone and to live a normal life not being harassed.

    I’m going to take your advice and find out as much as I can about what’s going on and how I can help myself ..Thank You very much; only someone who has been through this can really fathom what is really happening .

  51. Larry Says:

    @ Help …

    I fully agree that most people don’t have a clue as to how terrible a situation can become. Often, if you reach out to those people, they will in turn judge you as having problems, such as being “paranoid”.

    Those are people you need to avoid, as you will most likely not be able to convince them otherwise.

  52. psychosisters Says:

    @Larry – I agree that you can’t reach to most people in a common circle because the sociopath is so incredibly manipulative that the people are either groupies/disciples, or these people simply can’t fathom how crazy a situation is or what it is like to have a seriously mentally disordered family member.

    I was going to respond to your comment that you said that you were a “pariah” in your family – and I had read that in some family dynamics, one person can come to represent all that is wrong with the others. In other words, you are a glaring reminder to your sister and ex, and whoever else, of their wrongdoings in life and their lies, breaking the law, etc because you are different and don’t engage in that kind of behavior. That is why there is a hostility against you (I have the same thing in my family). Just look at it like you’re one of the X-Men – you’re the mutant gene that escaped the craziness and disorder in your family.

    I also read another site where one person said that they play the faux sociopath vis-à-vis to the real sociopathic sibling just to avoid confrontations – like, oh, I’m short this week on money, maybe next month (when being asked for a loan) I mean, you just end up in the craziest situations! Welcome to the looney bin!

    Just putting some thoughts out there.

    ps The holidays are coming up – time to go out of town again! ;)

  53. Daughter In Law Says:

    Disciples will be the ones who make hang-up calls to your home phone, and send unwanted taxis to your home. Disciples are the reason we cut off the psychopath in our lives.

    We did not believe she would commit any acts of violence against us, but that she would have one of her disciples do it. These would be hard to spot, as we didn’t know who they were. Some were strangers she had recruited online. She also used children to do her dirty work. Yes, she got her grandchild to try to stab another one of her grandchildren. He almost succeeded, but was stopped by the child’s father, who ran across the room and grabbed the weapon.

    The psychopath could easily have stopped this, as she was right there. But why would she, when it seemed apparent that she had orchestrated the whole thing? There is no limit to the evil of people like this.

  54. Becca Says:

    I still have not figured out exactly what it is that my husband “psychopath” in divorce/custody litigation with is telling tons of people.

    I know that he is constantly setting me up and manufacturing situations to control and play his game of “Smoke and Mirrors”. I seem to lose groups of people at a time. I have been isolated from persons in the church of my former township when we lived there, he was able to smear my reputation to the persons that ran the daycare where our son went to, and now that I moved away from that town with my son he has relocated him self in the town next to mine and has become involved in the community and has played up to the many woman that are involved in my sons elementary school.

    I am basically ignored at school events by the school, the principal, the teachers and even the PTA. My 6 year old son is experiencing not so nice behaviors from some of the children that he was friendly with last year and not having a great time this year. It is a nightmare for both of us, me and my son.

    I have gone to a couselor to be able to better handle this type of person. My trial is still not completed but it appears we have joint custody and I was very upset with my attorney, this is not a workable situation. I still do not think my attorney gets that my husband is a sociopath and his lawyer is a “shark”, I was thrown under the bus for $35,000.00.

    I am just venting to everyone here on the website and trying to figure out what more can I do to protect myself and son from this man (almost ex) with no conscience. Any suggestion or comforting thoughts? I know I rambled.

  55. Larry Says:

    @ Becca …

    Their evilness and lack of morals is truly unfathomable. After I got full custody, my ex and her new hubby moved right down the street from me.

    You may never know what is being said about you, and that’s the sad truth. I only have hints of what has been fabricated about me, and it’s been going on all my life. I hope you have a good therapist.

  56. Ruth Says:

    Hi found this site after googling the words “My sister’s a Sociopath” and am I glad I found it.

    I am 30 years old, my sister 10 years older than me. in normal circumstances she should be protective, genuine, helpful etc to me as I am her little sister but that is so far from reality. I don’t want this to be a really long post as nobody may read it and I really need someone’s advice because I cannot physically cope anymore…Basically my sister has bullied other members of my family all her life.

    She is a good looking girl who was always popular with the boys and got everything she ever wanted in life which was rich men, money nice clothes and a beautiful house to live in. She married when she was 39. Her wedding day was the worst day of my life. I was her maid of honor and when I came back from getting my makeup and hair done she started fighting with me for no apparent reason. Throughout the day of her wedding she stuck her nails into me, scratched my arms and basically tortured me.

    My 2 younger sisters also were bridesmaids and she had done the same thing to them. They are beautiful looking model-material young girls and it was my belief that she was envious of them that they may look better than she did and that was the reason for her behavior.. she fell around drunk at her own wedding and my mother never even flinched which made me want to cry with frustration. After her wedding me and my sisters distanced ourselves from her for several months. My younger sister’s wedding was taking place 1 year later and from the day my little sister received her engagement ring she started the most terrible rumors and lies about my little sister and her fiancee.

    She spread rumors to our extended family that he was gay, that he was cheating on her with men and women, that his family were dangerous etc. She then went to my sister and told her that she wanted to get her engagement ring reset the same as hers and demanded her to go to the jeweler where she got her ring made so as to copy my little sisters. My little sister refused and she unleashed the worst form of abuse about my little sister to anyone that would listen.

    If I thought what she was saying about her Fiancee was bad I was wrong – she began to destroy my little sister. The worst thing is that my mother took the sociopath’s side after listening to all the rumors and refused to go to my little sisters bachelorette party instead going to stay with my older sister in her house while my older sister continued to bad mouth my little sister. Things got so bad that my little sister got violently ill with stomach and anxiety problems. Eventually my little sisters wedding day arrived and things had cooled off a bit. The day of the wedding was like waving a red rag to a bull as she was so enraged that my mother did not try to cancel my little sisters wedding as she had begged my mother to do. It was crazy – why she wanted her wedding cancelled to us was a mystery.

    my little sister sara had been going out with her fiancee for 12 years – my family, including my mother, loved the ground he walked on. Nobody could understand why she was making up all these lies about them. Eventually it was my turn to get married and then the worst started. I am married to the most fantastic gentleman anyone has ever met. Again, my family has known him all their lives and they adored him …until she began..she told my mother the most horrific lies about him (so bad that I cannot write the worst ones on here). My mother stopped speaking to me completely.

    She called my brothers who I was so close to but who lived abroad for some time and she made up lies so bad about him and me that they too stopped speaking to me. I became very ill and ended up in hospital from severe anxiety and literally screaming from the insides that nobody wanted anything to do with us anymore and we had done nothing to nobody. Eventually my sister started making the mistake of telling these lies to people who were very friendly with my soon to be husband and they told me everything.

    I sat down with these people and I told them lies she had said about them also in the past and so I was happy for the first time in my life that she was totally exposed. I confronted her one week before my wedding about the fact that she had turned so many people against me and she exploded with the worst rage I have ever seen. The morning of my wedding arrived and as I was putting my wedding dress on she burst in the door of the bedroom and started screaming – screaming so loud that all my little nieces began crying.

    Some members of my family told her to leave but she kept screaming – telling lies that I had tried to break up her marriage, that I had spread vicious rumors about members of my family etc (EVERYTHING SHE HAS BEEN DOING ALL HER LIFE)! My mother stood back and said nothing – totally ignoring my sisters violent temper – and 5 minutes later I had to walk up the isle like nothing happened while I was trembling from the shock.

    She went to the church and on front of the entire congregation wrapped her arms around my fiancee and told him how happy she was for him and that she wished him the very best of luck from the bottom of her heart! – after what she had just done to me in my house! She didn’t go to my wedding reception and instead began texting guests at the wedding that I hated them and I had said horrible things about them and that was why she wasn’t attending my wedding.

    People began leaving the wedding that day on the premiss of what she was saying. My mother never looked at me on my wedding day and left mid way through. The following day the remaining members of my family and I had an intervention with our mother about our sisters behavior, her lies, her explosive temper and that fact that we were all terrified of her including my father – my mother would not listen even when we had to tell her to steer clear from her as she was saying terrible things about her too.

    That was in July and since then my mother has stopped speaking to me completely, she believes my crazy sister and it is so bad that my mother has left our house and is living in a house that my sociopathic sister and her husband own and stay at on the weekends. My mother openly had said that I am to blame for splitting up our family and should never have confronted my older sister and “let sleeping dog’s lie”. I come from a large family of brothers and sisters. Since that has happened I told them all things my crazy sister said about them – things that were so bad nobody would believe.

    My family is so tired of it that they don’t want to hear from me anymore, they prefer instead to just play along happy family’s with her because it’s easier to. I have not seen or spoken to my family since my wedding and all the time she continues to manipulate people and tell lies. Nobody will stand up to her and I am left out on a limp on my own and I just cannot handle it. I just have no control as to what she is going to do or say next.

  57. Donna Says:

    Hi Everyone,
    I just found out after all of these years that the reason I used to get in trouble for things I didn’t do was because my sister was lying to my Mother. My Mother believed everything she was told and said to me “she was her snitch”.

    I’ve always tried to rise above the horrible childhood I had. When I was 16 my mother packed me up and sent me to live with my father (who I only met the year before and spent one week with him). I just found out that my sister had lied to my mom and said I was planning to hitch-hike to San Francisco and that’s why my mom sent me there. It was devastating to me at the time to be put on that plane, I cried the whole flight.

    My sister also told me constantly that my mom said these horrible things about me, that I was stupid and ugly etc. Now an old friend contacted me on facebook, it was an old friend of us both. She told everyone that this person was stalking her and now because I am friends with her on facebook, this friend has access to her and her kids etc. It’s a complete lie! Now my family isn’t responding to any facebook photos or remarks.

    I don’t know what to do and feel like giving up on my family because they believe her lies!! It’s so hurtful because I always stick up for my family members when she bad mouthed them behind their backs but they don’t stick up for me. I know she’s very jealous of me and can’t stand for anyone to even give me 5 minutes of attention!

    She has caused me such great harm over the years. Should I give up? I have so many other good people in my life and this is tearing me apart. My mother-in-law of 24 years adores me. What should I do?

  58. Blacksheep Says:

    I too have ONE sibling who has for 35 years shown signs of sociopathic behavior. This sibling has bullied me severely and several times over the past 35 years. This sibling has had my children following like the sociopath sibling is GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. and does no wrong.

    For the past few years i have been so isolated from all my family it has made my life pretty unbearable. One of my chldren recently turned 40 and three times in one day picked up on the pack of lies my sibling has been telling on me.

    My sibling had the goading gall to tell one of my children that I cashed in a life insurance policy of my only living parent’s for $15,000, that i cashed the check, canceled the policy, and that my sociopathic sibling had PROOF …. a copy of the check from the life insurance company that I signed ….. when my child came to me questioning me about all this, I took a deap breath and exhaled, then I said …. how does life insuance work? Can you tell me that? You’re 40 years old and you should KNOW the answer to that. Life insurance only pays beneficiaries when the insured party dies ….. has ANYONE died? No they have not. Further more, I have NEVER signed my only living parent’s name to any check of any kind. YOU TELL YOUR dearly beloved sociopathic aunt/uncle to PRODUCE that copy of the check I am to have forged my only living parents’ name on, it can not be done, for I never did that! The check has not been produced to this day and it never wil be.

    A few days later my sociopathic sibling told the child follower that I borrowed $15,000 on my only living parent’s house and that my only living parent was having o pay the payments because I got the loan in my parent’s name. again I took a deap breath and exhaled …. I said why don’t you go to the bank president with your concerns and ask to see the bank tapes the day the loan was taken out …. you WILL NOT see me on any bank tapes commiting bank fraud or morgage fraud. Better yet, when you decide to talk to the bank take you dearly beloved sociopathic aunt/uncle with you!

    I’m taking baby steps to get my children back on the same page with me and we ARE getting back to being family again, without my sociopathic sibling.

    Over the past 35 years my sociopathic sibling has convinced our only living parent that two more of my siblings are super evil bad ass people and with some of the most horriffice horrible lies ever told, lies that can not be proved with paper documentation for they NEVER happened, the sociopathic sibling has managed to run those two siblings completely off from the remaining family. I however have NEVER let any family gossip or squabbles come between me and my only living parent.

    i have in recent years reconnected with one of my isolated siblings and we have had many a late night brain storm conversation over pop corn and a movie in the privacy of our homes. I’ve been brave and bold and tactfull and asked many a question about many events that i did not understand and together we have uncovered the sociopathic siblings’ 30+ year history of sociopathic behavior and isolation tactics. We now realize that all the sociopathic sibling’s behavior has been for the sole purpose of taking EVERYTHING our only living parent has via manipulation and showing the rest of us that we an’t shit caue the sociopathic sibling IS THE ONLY ONE WITH MONEY and money means POWER!

    My reconnection with one of the isolated siblings has brought on an eye opening experience and we have finally realized that WE TWO have been the slave children to our only living parent. All we have ever been asked to do we did with open arms and willing hearts and hands out of love and respect for our parent, while the sociopathic sibling has manipulated our only livig parent into commiting bank fraud, morgage fraud, and insurance fraud.

    Our only liviing parent has been placed in a nursing home under the pretence of physical rehabilitation and getting to go back home. The sociopathic sibling the day after admitting our parent into the nursing home, changd the locks on the parent’s home, pilfered through the parent’s home, took bank statements, house deed, auto title and control of parents checking and went 180 miles back to their home and left our parent with no way to contact any of us for anything and no money.

    Currently, my biggest fears are my sociopathis sibling making up Phony papers in an attempt to PROVE i’m guilty of all that I stand accused of, coupled with the fear that I may enter the nursing home to visit my parent ony to find that i have been barred from doing so, or that my parent has been taken out of state and that i will never again be able to give my only living parent a hug and tel them that i love them and worse yet …. not be allowed to attend my parent’s funeral.

  59. Steve Says:

    Dear Blacksheep,

    Siblings are the worst of the bunch, except maybe parents. That’s no consolation, my understanding, but I really felt your agony when you described yourself as a slave.

    They treat us as slaves. expecting us ABSOLUTELY to be just that.
    I have walked away from the Parent and Sibling in my family. It took alot of courage to just face myself and realize that I am a
    life. I am worthy! Worthy to live a happy, joy-filled life without their $hi+. It’s theirs, and they can sit in it.

    When you reach the point of no guilt, no regrets yhou can walk away from these people, and continue on. Luckily for me Blacksheep I have no such entanglements as you. But some of you out there, you have choice! Choose You!

    It is so hard, but so worth all the energy it takes to do that.

    And for those of you still involved, realize you are in a war, and they take no prisoners. So arm yourselves with video and tape recorders, document every encounter. It’s alot of work, but you may save yourself one day because of it.

    They never tire. Niether should you, unless you want to be a victim/martyr/slave to them as long as you or they exist. Don’t ever back down either, but remain calm. They create chaos. That is what they are best at. That’s how they wear you down. Find that strength – you know you have it. How many years have you put up with them? You survived this far. Go for the win. You have everything to lose if you don’t have that attitude. Especially yourself.

    Now how scary is that?

    Steve

    Ps. Check out my previous posts elswhere on this sight…

  60. Blacksheep Says:

    Steve,

    Thank you for your uplifting message of heart felt encouragement!

    I have a sister sibling who has been isolated from our mother and family for over 20 years. Just recently she and I began talking and spending good quality time together. We’ve had many wee hours of the morning gut wrenching discussions about a semi truck load of crap that has happened since about 1980′s. I have no problem being brutaly honest. I do not pussy foot around, I state things as I rember and see them. These two traits I possess have led my sister sibling and I to discover the tangled web of lies and deciet the sociopathic sister sibling has been weaving for about 35 years! We’ve seen patterns that began when sociopathic sister sibling was mealy 15 years old.

    I’ve always heard it said that two heads are better than one. But this only holds true if those two heads are like minded people that are on the same page with one another.

    I’ve tried for 3 years to get my children to see what the sociopathic sister sibling has been up to and I’ve pointed out lie after lie after lie to them. One of my children was lied to three times in one day by my sociopathic sister sibling and my 40 year old child finally caught on to it then admitted to me that I was right all along! What a glorious day that was!

    It takes baby steps to get others to see the great divide and conquer scheme that the sociopath is attempting to accomplish.
    That’s why I do not ever intend to allow the sociopathic sister sibling to slide on any lie they spread around about anyone ever again.

    Because of the gigantic wealth of extremely useful information I’ve litteraly stumbled across here on this site there are now three members of my immediate family that have banned together in the war to save our reputations and to get my mother well so that she can go back home.

    My major worry now is how far will my sociopathic sister sibling go to take me down? Will she produce yet another set of false forged faked insurance/bank/etc documents that I NEVER signed? Well …. I’ve given that some thought and my response will be …. let’s contact the bank and get video survalence tapes for the date that was signed, I never signed that. Let’s get a hand writing expert to take a look at that, I never signed that. I’ve never signed my mother’s name to anything. I’ve never written a check out of my mother’s account and signed it.

    I’m ready to run with this as hard and far and long as it takes to bring the socipoathic sister sibling down to slave status where she’s kept my children, my sister sibling and me for over 35 years!

    I’ve located spy cams/clocks/pens/sunglasses/etc and 32 gb sd cards to go with them via ebay for under $10.00 each and I’m arming myself and one of my children with them. We shall see if the liar wins this time.

    Just remember this, Steve, your always in my prayers!

    XO
    Blacksheep

  61. jen Says:

    hi larry.

    i am married to a sociopath right now. i am stuck at the moment. my husband tried to put life insurance on me and kill me so he could be with his girlfriend. it is so crazy that i did not realize he was a sociopath for years. when i met him 16 years ago i was a happy, love life, type person. now i suffer with severe depression. i take an anti depressant, sometimes i can not get out of bed. i tried to kill myself once.

    he lies to me about everything even when it makes no sense for him to lie. whats wierd is when i am around him i get this overwhelming feeling of hopelessness, and i feel so down, so depressed. but when he is not around i feel ok. he has ruined my credit, and ruined everything i have ever tried to accomplish. he always makes fun of me and blames me for everything. he has cheated on me for our entire marriage and is still cheating.

    i get scared sometimes that he might meet someone else that he thinks he can use and tries to kill me again. i do feel so hopeless. i noticed it is extremely important to him that people see him as a saint. he gets very angry if i threaten to expose the real him. i don’t want pity either but it is very comforting to be a part of this site.

    one time he asked me if he could borrow my birthday money to buy pizza and mcdonalds for himself. he promised he would give me the money back but when he got paid he told me he was keeping my birthday money and putting it towards bills, which i already pay more than my fair share. i said to him but you did not pay bills with it, you bought yourself food. then he told me off. i was so hurt i just started crying. that is so low, how could anyone take their wife’s birthday money, like that. i could never do anything like that to anyone.

    he has athlete’s foot and he will not treat it. my oldest son caught it and ended up with sores all over his feet, and he had to wear slippers for a week. my husband kept telling me, very rudely, that he never walks around barefoot. but for years i could not figure out why my feet were always burning and itching. isn’t it crazy how i believed him? for the past five years i have to spray the bathroom floor with bleach after he is done in the bathroom. i also have to spray the shower. my husband will not clean up after his athlete’s foot. it is so depressing.

    thanks for the website

  62. Blacksheep Says:

    Dear Jen,

    Your post sounds like my first marriage! my ex had to be right about EVERYTHING! In the mind of my ex they were right up there with GOD and most of the time actually tried to convince me they were smarter than GOD or actually God himself.

    You need to find a safe house and remove youreslf and your children from the home. You need to put a great deal of distance between yourself, your children and your sociopath husband.

    Try and remember all the events surrounding the time he tried to kill you and the purchase of the life insurance. Collect any and all documentation or proof of this event with you and keep it in a safe place for reference later. Talk privately with a local police detective and take any and all documentation with you to every meeting with that detective.

    From what you’ve written here my guess would be that he is attempting to get YOU to kill yourself so he will not go to prison for doing it himself. DO NOT fall for that!

    This internet is a wonderful place! Try and locate a safe house out of your state with litterally HUNDREDS of miles between youself and this sociopath, take your children with you! DO NOT tell anyone of your plans to do this as SOMEONE might tell him and he would most definately harm you and possibly the children too! I know, been there done that.

    Get your head screwed on straight and get a well mapped plan of action and get the hell out of there and take your children with you.

    If he has had this behavior for 16 + years you can bet your boots he will never see the need for him to change.

    If you do decide to get out, be very careful when leaving. DO NOT take large amounts of stuff out of the house that he will immediately miss. Box up stuff that can be quickly grabbed and taken at a moments notice. Stash plenty of cash where you can grab it as you leave. DO NOT use bank cards or credit cards when you leave, they are too traceable and he WILL find you. Clothes for two weeks, photo albums that are precious to you, birth records for yourself, your children, your marriage license, copies of that insurance policy, stuff all your documentation in a safe place away from the house so you can grab it and run. Have the detective make copies of everything to keep with him.

    You’re always in my prayers!

    Blacksheep

  63. enlightenedONE Says:

    This website has explained many situations, cleared up a lot of scenarios I have found troubling and I’ve even spotted several situations that match my own as if by design

    @cathy the website you refer too seems fake and it seems to be someones attempt to play sociopath and then direct others to said website in order to insinuate another is the sick mind #just sayin, but besides from that the abundance of information I have gathered here is amazing !

    I have found that when a sociopath knows where you have been on the web they will follow you and then spread their cancerous slander leaving you to look like a mental case

  64. enlightenedONE Says:

    I would like to say to everyone here, don’t worry every dog has his day !

    Tricks don’t last always and even though it seems like the sociopath is getting away with it if you stay calm and pay attention you can gather enough evidence to bring them down …. evidence is what is needed

    these people base eveything on someone else taking the fall they commit the crime and want someone else to pay for it its time these criminals do their own time and its time the hunted become the hunter and take back what belongs to them their reputation, happiness and life

  65. Fiona Says:

    Sounds like my mother a supposed good Christian woman (not even close) and caring and kind mother and retired nurse, Florence Nightingale, if you will.

    If people really knew the truth about her dysfunctional personality they would probably be aghast and find it very difficult to believe that she killed 4 of my pets with her bare hands, almost daily emotionally and mentally tortured me and my father who turned to drink and subsequently died of cancer (and guess who was administering the morphine when he was sick?), turned my father and me against each other and encouraged him to hit me with a strap…I could go on.

    She has somehow managed to convince the rest of her family that “Poor ……” has such a hard life with an alcoholic husband and a uncontrollable daughter. She is quite literally insane and without a conscience or soul.

  66. Blacksheep Says:

    Fiona, I am sorry you have had to endure such a horrible childhood. Mine wasn’t pretty either. Had a stepfather who was by today’s standards a pedofile and when my mother caught him after YEARS of me telling her, they solved the problem by sending me to my grandmother’s to live! I was 14 years old! That was heart breaking, knowing as they drove off that I would never again be allowed in the house I had called home, and that I would never again see my mother and siblings. After that day I rarely saw my mother or my siblings. My grandmother would not let my stepfather in her home without my mother being with him.

    I had a long talk with my 40 year old son yesterday and explained to him how fortunate it was that I survived. Most children would have killed themselves, I did not, I struggled but I made it and I’m still here today.

    The sociopath sibling; I have uncovered a trail of public records dating back to 1989 and found some forged papers which I know the sociopath sibling persuaded her disciples to put together. Sad part is they got the dates backwards! I also got certified copies of marriage license to PROVE who DID NOT sign the documents.

    I’ve had POWER OF ATTORNEY thrown in my face the very last time. The sociopath sibling siter has wedged herself between my mother and I and stopped me from spending a quiet day with my mother taking her to her doctor appoinment and she LIED and got caught in her lie by the nursing home! I didn’t have to say or do anything!

    God is great and if you’re REALLY REALLY GOOD …. He’ll let you watch!

    My 76 years old mother informed me yesterday that sociopath sibling sister wants to apologize to me. I very seriously doubt that. I’m going to tell my mother my terms for this fake ass apology and they are as follows …..

    I’ll make a list of ALL THE PEOPLE sociopath sibilng sister has told lies to and she can apologize IN FRONT OF THEM, all at the same time! IF she’s willing to do so, I’ll accept her heartless apology.
    (I’ll not tell anyone this last part …)
    Then I’ll give her a real good case of lettin’ alone for I will NEVER EVER associate with her again!

  67. Fiona Says:

    That is very sad. It is amazing that children of these nutters survive. We are all living testaments to that! It just proves to me there is a higher force looking after us, gradually making us stronger.

    It’s so hard dealing with these people. Part of you is just SO furious and part of you just wishes they would see how much pain they caused you. It’s taken me a long time to realise they are incapable of such a human act. It’s simply beyond them.

    It is extremely difficult to extricate ourselves from their sick personality and the subsequent emotional reactions that keep us tied to them. But we battle on!

    Larry’s advice on this website has been great. I guess the thing we all can do is control our reactions to them, because, I just realised this, our emotional pain is like food to them. They want us to react badly to them.

    Thanks for the reply Blacksheep!

  68. Blacksheep Says:

    From the time we reach the legal/moral age of accountability which would be 12 to 15 years of age, we have the GOD given right to choose how we live our lives and how we treat others.
    We can choose to get up in the morning and be nice and good and kind and a true blessing to those all around us or; we can choose to be mean, nasty, hateful, dishonest, goading individuals that no one wants to be associated with.

    As a God fearing christian I get up each day and say a prayer; Thank you for this day and everything in it. I pray for the sick the and the less fortunate and I ask fo strengh, courage and knowledge to make it through the day, then I get up and put feet on those prayers.

    As a Christian when the devil tempts me and tries to sway me I simply say; get thee behind me satan and ask the Lord for strength and courage to move on and always do what is good and right in HIS sight.

    I firmly believe that the sociopath is awake all night plotting and planning and covering their tracks/behavior patterns and finding ways to blame everyone for their horrible behavior, then when they get out in the world they look for ways and means to set their diabolical plans into motion rather than doing a decent days work, helping others and paying it forward.

    My sociopath sister siblling has recently made my mother whom the sociopath sibling sitter placed in a nursing home/rehab facility look like she’s incompetent and unfit to handle her own affairs and made me out to look like a liar/sneek/thief. However, when I offered up phone numbers for the Dr. Offices and explained the circumstances sociopath sibling sister was caught with the shit stiring (goading) stick in her hand! Her plan blew up in her face and made HER look childlish and petty and greedy and uncaring for our mother’s well being.

    It wasn’t easy to take a deep breath and exhale and explain the truth or prove that what I was saying WAS the truth, but I did prove that I could in fact be trusted.

    Now I have the task of proving that my sociopath sibling sister snowed our mother into believeing a pack of lies that began via a cell phone conversation for the entire purpose of making mother and I both look unbelievably and publicly untrustworthy.
    Sociopath sibling sister has denied our mother previously planned medical treatments/doctor appointments under the pretense that the treatments/dr visits were scheduled too soon and were NOT needed and that I could not be trusted to transport or even ride with our mother. Clearly an isolation tactic from my stand point.

    Denying the elderly medical treatment is by today’s standards elder abuse/neglect and is punishable by jail/prison/stiff fines.

    There is currently a case in the K.C. MO. area in which a son denied his elderly mother care/treatment and his mother died because of it. He now faces life in prison simply because he didn’t want to mess with taking his mother for treatment, he wanted her estate and look what’s happened to him because of his greed. He allowed greed to cloud his judgement and his care and concern for the one who gave him life and never abandoned him.

    I remembered one of Larry’s many lessons given here ….
    Arm yourself with truth!

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!
    If you posess the desire to do good and have the spare time, become an advocate for someone who is in need of one.
    A child, an elderly person, an unwed mother/father.
    Remember, we reap what we sow ten fold.

    GOD BLESS US EVERYONE!!!!

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  69. Larry Says:

    Hi Blacksheep,

    First off, thank you for chiming in on other people’s comments and offering your insight. This is truly a painful subject, and the more input the better.

    I need to question your age range of 12-15 as the time people reach their legal and moral age of accountability. I have to take sharp opposition to that. Kids in that age bracket may think they know everything, but they are in no way completely accountable … legally or morally. They’re just kids and still in training. They will do stupid things that they would never do later in life. And in those years, parents and peers have a lot to do with their actions. It’s a time of learning.

    It’s obvious your Christianity is very important and drives you to make the right decisions … I respect that. But I want to add that so too are those who follow Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Mormon and many other religions. The US is primarily a Christian nation, but look at the wrongs we’ve done to others, recently and throughout the nation’s history. It’s hard to know all the facts and not be ashamed.

    This site is not about religion, but since you brought it up I wanted to add my two cents. I was raised in a very religious family … the majority being sociopaths.

    I assume you were being facetious when you said you firmly believe sociopaths stay up all night. Trust me, they don’t.

    I do hope your own family situation improves.

    Thanks again.

  70. Deborah Says:

    Wow, it is finally nice to reinforce what I have finally come to suspect – I’m not the crazy one!

    I could write a huge amount of information on this but my younger sister fits the criteria for sociopathic tendencies, as well as severe chronic lying. It took me too many years to realize that trying to maintain a relationship that left me feeling confused and emotionally drained was not my responsibility to maintain. God teaches us to be peace-makers, not peace-keepers. In other words, I felt bound to the laws of family guilt (and I still get that from them) but I do not feel bonded to her in the way a normal sister relationship should because of her lifestyle and incessant lying.

    It’s been very frustrating that even though we are extremely different, much of our family still naively labels it as simple “sibling rivalry.” The last straw for me was explaining to the truant officer who called me about her oldest three children dropping out of high school (yes, three high school dropouts…) that I was not “bi-polar” and have never been diagnosed with same. I have had to explain this to four others in a small town and she apparently spread the lie due to the great relationship I have with my six beautiful and emotionally healthy children by saying that the “reason they are such good kids is because they are afraid of their mother (me) because she suffers severe bi-polar disorder.”

    Hmmm…I am terribly sick of my family excusing her by saying, “Well, she’s just insecure about her own life.” She had also spread the rumor that my marriage is horrible, that my husband has cheated on me. She has brought false protective orders to every man she has married or dated, has borrowed and not repaid just about everyone she has had relationship with, and has moved over 28 times in 20 years.

    She has purchased three Siberian huskies with money she couldn’t afford to begin with and (honest to God), she has had to have all three of these pets “put down” by the vet because of viciousness. Her four children are emotionally neglected (again, her eldest three are high school dropouts and chronic substance abusers – she allowed them to do it in their own bedrooms) and anytime I tried to confront this, it was always met with, “Well, she’s not perfect but she does love her children.”

    So many times I wanted to scream that no one is perfect and ask what definition of love they are referring! What I have listed already is just a very brief synopsis of the lifestyle she has led – I could probably write a book and people wouldn’t believe it. For my own peace of mind, though, I sadly have severed all ties with her and I will always feel a little sad that I’ll be that person who tells people in the future that, “My sister and I haven’t spoken for several years and probably never will.”

    Thanks so much for writing your stories – it’s made me realize that I am not alone and that it’s okay for me to have a life….

  71. Bananas Says:

    Well,
    I am putting pen to paper so maybe I can heal. I am so angry. So angry.
    I have always seen through my father. As young as I can remember. 3, maybe 4 years old.
    A liar. A cheat. Blowhard. Self serving. Con-artist. Actor. Verbal and mental abuser; too physical. Let’s just say two under sized little girls getting beaten with sticks and belts like a maniac. But never punched in the face. Just open-hand slaps. Abuse? I will never forgive him either way.

    He kept relationships with other women for the entire time he was married to my mom. He justified it to me, long after I reached adulthood. His reason was that my mother had rejected him, and he was abused and neglected by her. He was the victim. Still is. Just ask him. He is an innocent angel that we all owe. She most assuredly did not give him the adoration he deserved. Oh, and everyone’s hero. Everyone but my mom, my little sister, and me. He sported $300.00 boots and gold belt buckles. Our pantry might be empty. I would be told to hide a new pair of 5.00 slip ons, lest he find out.
    My father covets other’s belongings, like a little kid at school stealing ohter kids shiny pencils. I am so disgusted.

    Did I mention he is a liar? I am grown, have 2 grown kids, and my dad is old. His health is failing, and he is still a parasitic liar.
    I let him into my home 3 months ago after a nasty breakup with a different wife. Now he is as healthy as he can get considering the fact that he is a gluttonous pig, and won’t push off the trough. His doctors have everything under control, and he is ready for a part time job to supplement his retirement. I want him out. Now. I am tire of him breathing my air. He left us several times when I was a kid, and conveniently had a lot of business out of town, etc.(yeah) So, this last few months is the most consecutive time I have had with my Father probably ever. He has not changed, or learned form anything. He still does not understand that there are ramifications for your actions. He still does not think he has to pay the piper. I don’t care anymore. I met with my moral obligation, and I am done. He seems to have no real moral compass. He just says what society has conditioned him to say about right and wrong. He is also an ordained minister from 40 years ago. I think he did it to be popular with women. Gross. I have always since I was a very young child entertained the thought that he has no soul. Or perhaps, is possessed by demons.

    I feel a real ominous pressure. I feel he needs to go. I do not trust him. I have ceased giving him his way, and I definitely think he sees me as the enemy now. My childhood has come flooding back to me in technicolor.

    My husband doesn’t understand why I am so anxious. I’m not sure if I do completely. He wants to wait and talk things over, outfox the fox and make him think it’s his idea to move on. But my father is so narcissistic, I think he believes we owe it to him to keep his standard of living. here. No I say.

  72. Bananas Says:

    In case I didn’t actually come out and say it…..My dad is a narcissistic sociopath. (sp?) I gave up the idea of a relationship. Who would want one with someone like that, right. Well that instills guilt. It makes me wonder if I am not more understanding and helpful I will become like him. Naaahhhh.
    I’m just bitter and hateful.

  73. Bananas Says:

    “I used to hate you. It was a seething burning hatred. Miraculously, I could put it away sometimes. But it was still there, just smoldering under the dirty ashes of guilt and shame. My pity for you prevailed. Why did I feel pity? Because you sought it out. Your “acts” within a dramatic play of a pitiful life. Why was I ashamed? I think because I had a sense of responsibility for your actions tucked away. Seems ridiculous now. It was real to me then.

    The hate is gone. The pity is gone. The shame is gone. The guilt is gone.

    Here is what is left. NOTHING. Get out of my life.”

    This is the final statement of a former daughter to her lying, cheating, conniving, using, lazy, narcissistic sociopath of a former father.

    “The sight of you turns my stomach. The sound of your voice causes anger. The lilting tones when I hear you on the phone telling lies to your next victim induces such emotion that I can hardly contain myself. I want to scream to them, BEWARE, for he will lie to you, make strange promises, and take from you.

    You are not smart, you are not great, and you are not wise. You are disgusting.”

  74. Becca Says:

    “Well said” from beginning to end…is there ever an end really?

  75. Bananas Says:

    Thank You Becca!

    In my opinion, Yes, there is an end. But we, the victims, have to close the book. The sociopaths never will. Closure is not important to them. They simply abandon one whim for another. I have noticed that when they see a blank stare coming from you it is the closest they come to truly understanding you have seen through them.

    I have adopted a certain coldness (out of necessity, mind you). They do squirm. But, they will attempt (and dwell on) defamation and revenge if they don’t have something better going. It sounds weird for it to be “you” and “them”; especially when you are talking about family and loved ones. Just remember we’re the ones that love. They do not love us. I was able to cross over in my mind when I realized that to be the truth. I admit I still second guess myself sometimes. But the truth is there. I just internally remind.

    He is leaving this weekend. He is acting like the new gig is so much better and that we were holding him back anyway. I think it is best to let him be rude and smug. After all he IS better than me.

  76. Joe Says:

    What is the best way to deal with sociopath family members? Should we just avoid them altogether?

    Here’s my story…

    My half-sister is a sociopath. Her dad is one too. They have no contact with each other whatsoever. They wrote each other off years ago. She uses her kids as weapons and the two youngest are disciples of her.

    Anyway, there have been times when her and I are very close, but every time I end up really hurt by her. I am to the point in my life, where I don’t even let her get close anymore because I assume she is planning something malicious. She hates the fact that I still occasionally talk to her ex husband who is a neighbor of mine. She thinks we are always plotting against her. When actually, she is hardly ever even brought up.

    In the past year, she has been very nice to me. And she even sent me a friend request on Facebook that I reluctantly accepted. She doesn’t like her kids around me because she thinks I am just going to try to talk them into contacting their dad. (Who she has kept them away from for over 7 years now.) Her son recently graduated high school and added me on Facebook too.

    I decided I would send her daughter a friend request as well thinking she would be allowed to accept. She denied the request and sent me a message saying she don’t want to talk to me because she thinks I am just going to try to get her to talk to her dad who as she put it “I obviously don’t know him anymore.” I told her that I had no intention of any of that and I just wanted to be in contact with her because I’ve missed out on so much of those kids’ lives. She has yet to reply back. I am thinking that she has either been very brainwashed by her mom or is just as bad as her. Or of course, which is the most likely case, the message was sent by my sister, rather than my niece.

    I am to the point where I would love to just erase them from my memory because it hurts so much sometimes.

    Once while my sister and I were fighting, I made the mistake of telling her that I know she’s a sociopath. She then started telling people lies about me. She even called our mother to complain to her about telling me my sister is that way. She has even tried convincing people that I’m borderlined retarded. Luckily no one has believed it.

  77. Larry Says:

    Joe,
    You must handle a family sociopath no different than any other. I believe they are somewhat more dangerous because they have the rest of your family at their mercy. And if your family is like mine, they get sucked in and tend to believe the lies.

    I don’t know what to tell you specifically other than to distance yourself, and if need be, write them off. Writing them off sounds drastic, but it’s for your own sanity. Some may come back around in the future.

  78. Blacksheep Says:

    Well Joe, first of all facebook isn’t something to put all this personal family stuff out for the public to see. Many employers will not hire you or keep you in their employment if they find you have a facebook page. If they see you have a problem with your family they do not want to endanger their other employees. Cyber bullying is now punishable by law. Cyber bullying also shows trained people such as police, attornies, judges and doctors what behavior patterns have been used and how a person might possbily escalate from bullying to physical violence.

    I have a facebook account. I have a fake or nickname I go by and I have no personal contact info on there. My sociopath sibling found out about my facebook account and slammed me big time on there. Called me a drunken whore and said she felt so sorry for my children having to be raised by me. THANK GOD I was up and on the PC and got the private email alert from facebook about a new post! I printed that post and put it in a file folder that has advanced to a four in thick notebook with several other damning things she’s sent me via the internet. That was three years ago.

    I’d like to suggest that you close that account out and if you really want a facebook account make a new one in a fake name and put no personal information on there. If you feel you can trust some of your sister’s children to keep it private then allow them the new info but you best be careful with that. Their mother will be screening their every move and eventually find out and possibly twist and use anything and everything you say against you.

    I’ve been accused of cashing in a $15,000 life insurance policy of my mother’s BEFORE she passed away. When my son at my encouragement contacted the insurance company and asked questions they wanted mother’s SSN and I gave it to him, they readily gave hiom the info on the policy. It had NOT been cashed in and sociopath sibling had changed the beneficiary in 2003 to ONLY HER! This is but one of the many lies sociopath sibling has told on me. And the hits just keep on coming! Just take those old records off the shelf …… and store them in a safe place for future reference!

    Joe, please take Lary’s advice here and arm yourself with truth. Document everything you can.

    I’ve raised my two children to listen and then verify what people are telling them and when in doubt come ask me and I’ll help in any way I can. So far my son has come to realize that his mother isn’t the bad ass bitch his Aunt has been telling him about all these years. Lawyers and judges and doctors and nurses listen and then they go verify and we all should take note of that and do the same.

    My son confronted her about it and she said …. Oh it’s NOT THAT policy I was talking about, it’s the $250,000 policy mother had and YOUR MOTHER cashed it in and spent everyone elses inheritence, all the other children and grandchildren’s inheritence!

    My mother didn’t have the financial means to pay the monthly payments on a huge life insurance policy like that. Mother got widow’s pention and that’s $760 a month! That’s all the income mother had since 1995!

    She told that second lie to cover up the first lie with her husband who was present and didn’t know she’d told the first lie!

    There is a new pocket size recording device out that is used for children with autisim and they are dirt cheap and can record for HOURS! They even have cell phone apps that can be loaded for a few dollars that record.Many cell phones have removable mini SD cards that can be placed in an adapter and information loaded onto PC/CD/DVD and stored for later use.

    When a sociopath is telling a lie that is the moment to confront them about it. When you call them out on it they will change the subject or try and choose up teams against you or bully you into backin down. Try and save them embarrassment in front of others but do confront them. Try your best to stay calm and not yell or swear, state facts and back those facts up if need be. If they persist and most will, they will more than likely over time progress to violent behavior. My situation is at that point now. I’m receiving verbal threats via my disciple daughter.

    Joe, I’m at a point where I’ve written my sociopath sibling off. I’m taking her to court and I’m going to see her behind bars for a good long while over the things she did to my mother when she was alive. We’ll start with forgery, bank fraud, mortgage fraud, title fraud, elder abuse and neglect then we’ll finish with destroying personal property that WAS NOT hers to destroy.

    Yes, Joe, I have certified copies of all my proof and pictures to boot. I am armed with the truth thanks to Larry and this website!

    God speed my good man! We here in the Country of Liars are just a click away if you need us.

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  79. Ruth Says:

    Dear Black Sheep, I am uplifted by your last post – not that my heart does not go out to you but that everything you have said is so spot on!

    Everyone here should take the steps you are i.e. collecting the proof and the evidence. The facts are the only thing that will eventually help you to win out in the end because they lie so well and on such a constant basis that they can make anyone believe they are telling the truth. My sister is one of the worst cases I have ever come across in my life – it’s lie after lie – the damage she has done and keeps doing to me is never ending. She now has my mother living with her and has turned her against all of her other children because all my other siblings have come to realize what she is.

    I am going to have to resort to recording each and every encounter I have with her as well as documenting everything she does with my mothers affairs because my mother believes that all of her other children have turned against her and so has her in charge of her life. I also agree about not shouting, swearing and staying as composed as possible. We confronted our sociopath sister at xmas and she went totally ballistic – she denied everything that was put to her and blamed it all on a deceased family in-law as naturally they could not defend themselves – there is no end to their badness but take it from me – good will prevail in the end – sometimes you have to give them enough rope in order for them to hang themselves! GOOD LUCK!

  80. Blacksheep Says:

    Dear Larry,

    True Christians (as with other religions too) follow the teaching of Jesus (or their chosen religious leader). Jesus wanted us to make good decisions that benefit everyone. That includes making sacrifices. Even the laws of this nation believe that we at what ever age should be held accountable for our actions.

    I’ve located a MAC – IV test given by professionals to determine what behavior patterns people display. A well seasoned sociopath will not display answers that depict their true self. (personality-testing.info/tests/MACH-IV.php)

    We do not see sociopath behavior in others especially family members because we were raised under the same roof by the same parents and for the most part we reach adulthood before we realize that not all households share the same beliefs or practices the same daily.

    At this site (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism) you’ll get an in depth description of the dark triad of behavior patterns which lead to becoming a sociopath.

    I learned a lot studying this information and now see my sociopath sibling in a different light.

    Larry I do apologize for over stepping my bounds as a poster here.
    This isn’t my blog spot, it’s yours, I was only trying to share my experiences and help others, I should have left MY RELIGION out of it.

    I’ll take you hint and gracefully back on out.
    Sorry for trampling on things of yours.

    I thank each of you from the depths of my heart for sharing and posting and helping me figure things out and learn for your experiences.

    May the God of your choice richly bless each of you and keep a watchful eye over you.

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  81. Kathy Says:

    Bananas, I inwardly weep at your experience, dread my children coming to feel the same, and deeply sympathize.

  82. Raina Says:

    Hi there, i would like to join this blog. I could use some support myself due to this in my family, work and past marriages. Im hoping to make better choices in whom i trust and learn what i can from what has happened in my life with people i belive to be sociopaths or possibly worse if that is possible.

  83. Leah Says:

    I feel so bad for all of you, really. I am so blessed to have none of this in my life although I have encountered a few rather questionable people. I pray for all of you that you can break free from all of this as it seems to me, a life of your own away from it all is what is best. And I mean away, another city, state. They are not the winners this way, you are. Just think at what the quality of your life could be like. Naturally though, your choices in your life are your own. God Bless all of you.

  84. Kim Says:

    Has anyone else been libeled online too? I don’t know if I should sue or if it’s too dangerous? It would be possible to prove that it’s complete fabrication and the content of the libel is very bad. I don’t know what is the wise choice.

  85. Larry Says:

    Kim,

    I believe it would be difficult to gauge your possible outcome by someone else’s. I would suggest getting all your evidence together and visit an attorney.

  86. Anne Says:

    Thank You, I have been wondering about my step-daughter for a very long time. She is almost definitely a sociopath. I have had some pretty extreme problems with her & lots of threats over the past few years.It’s been very difficult, even more so since her father has a Traumatic Brain Injury & he always believes what she says.She has done her best over the past 2 years to alienate him from me but so far I’ve been one step ahead as I knew there was something wrong with her & I know people in the medical/social field that know her & are able to tell my husband that the things she tells him are wrong.

  87. Stephanie Says:

    I cry when reading all of this. My life has been on and off HELL for the last 13 years since I met and married my wonderful husband. He is not the problem but has been a discipple. His 3 children and ex-wife have caused me such grief and anguish that I have almost left this incredible man many times. the only reasons I stay is because he is such a good man and is such a good stepdad to my son. They are very close and treat each other with real respect.

    The turmoil is so deep and too much for me to type right now. I am going to right a book it is so insane. It will make a good book because the stuff that has happened is just that bizarre and their desciples just act like it is all ok.

    I pray for all the people caught up in a sociopathic mess. The victims and their disciples. It is hard to stay strong. Find a GOOD church and let people embrace you with the ove of God. That is about the only way to deal with it if you just can’t get out.

  88. Blacksheep Says:

    To Larry and all who read and post here:

    I’ve stayed away from this site for a while now and been doing some research of my own in an effort to understand and better help the situation myself and three other siblings are currently in.

    I’ve discovered a wealth of information on the internet which has given me a great amount of insight and armed me with much ammunition for one of our up and coming court battle.

    While watching THE TALK with guest Jamie Lee Curtis I realized that what my ONE sibling was/has been doing to us and our now deceased mother for 20 years was most definately psychological warfare on a smaller scale. When I researched Psycological Warfare I also found an abundance of information on Emotional Warfare.

    After several days of reading up on both terms I’m better prepared for the court battle we are heading toward. When I looked up the term Psycological Warfare at dictionary.com this is what I located …..

    The use of propaganda, threats, and other psychological techniques to mislead, intimidate, demoralize, or otherwise influence the thinking or behavior of an opponent. (anything to knock you off your game! Anything to goad you into bad behavior in a public setting where there will be witnesses!)

    This definition made me look at my sociopath sibling in a completely different light! I finally realized that my sociopath sibling looked at me not as a sibling but as an opponent in a battle, a battle I didn’t even realize we were in, a battle for our only living parent’s attention, affections, and earthly possessions. All of which I have willingly and whole heartedly shared with each of my siblings. I began to realize that my sociopath sibling wants to be an only child and that the sociopath sibling is ashamed of our mother! So much so that not one picture of our mother has ever been in sociopath sibling’s home. Not on display or in a photo album.

    I’ve spent a good portion of my days and nights crying over the flood of memories brought on by all my research, memories of goading, demoralization, defamation, intimidation and all the misleading information (conspicuous lies!). Then came the flood of dreams and visions of how my mother was being treated behind all our backs AND that mother was living a night mare at the hands of sociopath sibling and was too scared to tell any of us! It just breaks my heart to know what mother had to tolerate from sociopath sibing!

    I’m done crying for now. I’ve got my head screwed on correctly and I’m moving forward with several law suits against sociopath sibling. Law suits that are definately founded and can be proven in a court of law! Forgery, Mortgage Fraud, Land Title Fraud, Bank Fraud, Elder Abuse. Last but definately not least, defamation of MY character, my son’s character, my husband’s character and of one particular sibling’s character!

    Sociopath sibling thought they could embarrass me in public, talk about me behind my back, tell lies on self, son and hubby and another sibling and all would keep us so embarrassed and hidden we would not figure out anything until it was far too late, but ….. sociopath sibling figured WRONG!

    I’m/WE are back on our feet and have a reputable attorney and his legal team on our side and HE suggested moving forward with all the above law suits, of which he and his team feel we can and will win as we have documented proof of all our allogations.

    I hope and pray this inspires each of you to do some research of your own and get up and get moving forward in what ever direction it leads you!

  89. Larry Says:

    @Blacksheep

    Thank you for sharing that information. I never quite thought of it in that light, but after reading your comment, I realize it describes my sister 100% towards me.

    My other two siblings are, at the minimum, disciples of her, though my brother shows many signs of AsPD himself. My other sister has had very limited contact with any of the family, except she stays in touch with my psychopathic sister.

    Please keep us up-to-date on how your trial proceeds.

    Thanks.

  90. PP Mom Says:

    Hello Larry and Readers,

    I suspect my older daughter (now 22) is a psychopath. I know my younger daughter (now 17) is a psychopath (diagnosed ADD/ODD at 16). Their father was a psychopath (diagnosed).

    My younger one (or maybe both) has/have targeted me. Nobody in my family will speak to me. They insist that I am mentally ill despite an evaluation from a liscensed psychiatrist to the contrary.

    My younger daughter has been declared a deprived minor based on lies I can easily disprove but the judge didn’t care. He even excluded CPS and Mental Health from involvement in the court proceedings. The caseworker was fully on my side after reviewing over a decade’s worth of false reports. Hmmm…

    Character assisination is a mild term for it. More like character mass murder! I am considering doing what you have doe and going public on the web to expose this – PP and the corruption of the local court system. I have already contacted one news network and e-mailed Dr. Phil. I have been so screwed here, I don’t know of anything more they can do to me.

    I want to thank you, Larry, as you have helped me understand the inconceivable – how these people (and there are ALOT of them!) could beleive this crap and shun me as they have. I am devastated as they want me to be. It worked. The continuous and unrelenting harrassment is awful – indescribable – awful doesn’t do it justice. Yes, it is Pure Evil, something I did not previously beleive in.

    A word of warning – I have read just about every word on this site including the section mentioning your son’s aspergers diagnosis. I have a big concern over this I feel I should share with you.

    I have something called Prosopagnosia that causes similiar inhibitions of social skills as do the ASDs. Just being socially inept MAKES YOU A TARGET FOR A SP/PP. It seems to draw them to you as an easy victim. (This is my concern as your son also has many in his life.) Probably why I married one. I feel like I was born to be surrounded by them because of my condition. I do not make friends easily so loosing the few I had as well as my ENTIRE family was a huge blow as my “beloved” daughter pointed out to me in a very hateful letter she sent me a few months ago – our only contact since her brush with exposure that caused her to decide to sink me.

    A side note/queston/theory; Because of similiarities between my condition and Aspergers as well as the SP/PPs I have had to live with, I have researched these conditions (as well as my own) in great detail. Both Aspergers and SP/PP are characterized by a lack of empathy to a high degree. While SP/PPs have extremely high social skills (so to speak) and Aspies have low ones, they are still ‘abnormal’ degrees of the same thing. While it seems like SP/PPs use this for personal gain at the expense of others and Aspies don’t (instead trying to fit in) I can’t help but wonder if there is a related genetic componant. Just thought I’d put that out there.

  91. GayeLynn Says:

    A reply to YOUR post Larry #22.

    I am doing a thorough reading and starting from the beginning of the posts and I’m sorry but that puts me a few years behind.

    The loss of your German Shepard, best Friend!! You have certainly been through the wringer and not just once I am reading!! Sounds like the life of my BFF and I but more to the point of this post IS what my BFF is going through tonight.:(

    She rescued a Bull Mastiff when he was 2 named him Capone and dog whispered to him and turned a VERY AGGRESSIVE MONSTER into a VERY GENTLE GIANT.:)

    Been through EVERY thing with her and the HELL she’s gone through!!!!….to find out today, he has spine and hip problems and she may not have him through the weekend. (He’s only 5 or 6 but VERY large and wish I could send you a photo.)

    She, too, has a past with a sociopath but lost her son 8 years ago and SO many others in her life, that this dog will diminish her quality of her not-so-great-life considerably.

    My heart hurts for my BFF’s upcoming loss as it does for your loss 2 years ago.

  92. Artist Says:

    Something weird sounding I recently realized, at least it makes complete sense to me…
    Odd as it may sound;
    Not only do
    liars know the Truth,
    or there could be no lie,
    Liars actually HAVE to pay attention to the Truth ALL THE TIME; (almost more than Truthful people who just live the Truth as best they can.)
    If liars did not constantly pay attention to the Truth, there could be no way to lie, as THE LIE IS ANYTHING BUT THE TRUTH, so liars know exactly what they are doing! They will eventually lose their conscience, however, because of the limitations of the human brain to remember more than five plus or minus two things at one time, so they forget who they are so to speak. This is also why they manipulate. I think the manipulation a are like “memory sticks”, to help the liars remember and sort out their lies, to “get around the limitations of the human brain’s capacity to remember”. I think liars often incorporate “worker bee liars”, again to help them remember their lies. The “memory sticks” are the manipulations, which are PATTERNS. Patterns are easier to remember than free form, creative, growing Truth that others just live in a world with. These patterns somehow end up the same non creative patterns, although sometimes amazingly complex, but non-creative, i.e. DESTRUCTIVE PATTERNS and BECAUSE THEY ARE PATTERNS THIS IS WHY PEOPLE OFTEN SAY THINGS LIKE, “are we married to the same man; my husband did the same exact thing to me”.

    Part 2.
    Let’s not even talk about Gaslighting, which my mother did to me from the time I could remember. Combine Gaslighting with a bad case of NPD, and you can either kill a person, or make them stronger and wanting to STAND UP FOR TRUTH. I am trying to be Strong and help people realize that when they see Thea negative patterns if behavior, they may want to remove themselves from the relationship and never get tricked into going back. My mother was a master at both so I got tricked for a good 59 years, blaming myself for her cruelty. I hope no one else will have to go through something anywhere near similar.
    So I might sound nuts, but when you go back and think about that “special” person’s behavior, some of what I have written might help one get away, before they become too damaged.
    All the very best to you all.
    Artist

  93. sandy Says:

    I haven’t read everything on your site, but just the titles sound like my life! I’m going to do some more reading and then post another comment. The long story short is that my sociopath sister has ruined my life. I was gullible in believing that my 3 siblings were like me: I’m an empath, my mother was clairvoyant and I have a lot of her gifts. I think my sisters and brother have always been jealous of the closeness between our mother and I (my mom died when I was 27, I’m 51 now). They just called me spoiled and I would have to agree. Not spoiled in the sense that I got everything I wanted because my dad was a warehouse employee and my mom stayed at home.

    Anyway, I jokingly said to my sociopath sister before Obama was elected that I was a socialist (the only kind of -ist I am is a humanist), and she reported me to the department of homeland security. She has spent her life lying to everyone in the family, including my son, telling them that I was going to leave my infant son when he was born, that I’m a pedophile, a thief, a lyer, lazy, etc. This is a sick mind we’re talking about here. This didn’t come to pass over a few years, it’s been all our lives, and she fooled me.

  94. Larry Says:

    Welcome Sandy,

    Department of Homeland Security? What were her expectations?

  95. sandy Says:

    Thank you Larry,

    To have me targeted as a dissident. If you do a little digging on DHS website you’ll see that the DHS received an almost limitless budget from congress right after 9-11 to start ‘citizen watch’ groups to report “suspicious activity” of family friends etc.

  96. Artist Says:

    Re: Sandy 2013.04.29 – 19:53
    I wonder if what your sister is doing is “Gas Lighting”?
    Your poor poor sister, having to do all that work lying. Then she has to try to remember it. She does not sound very intelligent because she is changing her lies with a lot of frequency. To me that indicates she can’t keep track of her previous lies so has to make up new and outrageous and cruel lies especially to lie to your son: that is unconscionable! I have thought it would be interesting to take say five of her lies and somehow construct and work them into a question which is like; “So you are saying that while blah blah was going on and you were having all that trouble with blah blah blah, that you had to blah blah blah, in order to blah blah and then blah blah happened?” (Five topics)
    And just watch what happens. Her brain will not be able to remember all the lies due to the limitations of the human brain to remember more than 5 plus or minus two things at one time. I bet she would run out the door screeming and never come back.
    Disclaimer: i do not know your situation and i am only an artist so this could be dangerous, but i personally, would love to do it.
    When you think about it, each lie is actually two lies. There is the fabrication itself which is one lie, but all lies are based against the Truth so it is denying the Truth, so there are 2 lies right there. If one asked one of these liars the kind of question above, which incorperates 5 lies, the liar actually has to remember at least ten things all at once. Now their brain will explode. I do not mean to suggest doing this because i don’t know the charcter of the liar involved nor what they are really lying about NOR have i ever tried this. But i sure would like to.
    PS she maipulated you into thinking she fooled you but she did not fool you. You are probably way more intelligent than she is and can see right through her so you probably scare her believe it or not, in my opinion. You will survive and be creative, and happy, i just know it.
    Artist

  97. GayeLynn Says:

    I’m curious also Sandy~reported to Homeland for _____________???
    I wouldn’t be too worried~FBI and FRIENDS of the Boston Bomber KNEW ALL ABOUT HIM and no one does a damn thing until something BAD happens.
    Just like a stalking sociopath~Inform the police and you get laughed at as they won’t/can’t do anything PRIOR to being cut/hurt/killed.
    Somethings just do NOT add up!!

  98. sandy Says:

    Hello, Artist, and thank you for your comments.
    I am sleep deprived and it takes me a while to get my mind around things, but gas lighting is a common tactic, and is used on me by all family members as well as former friends. She ran her smear campaign very well. I don’t want to sound like I’m without fault. I’ve always been the first to point out my short comings. And I have lied before, usually to get out of trouble when I was younger (no, I didn’t eat the last cookie!), or to avoid a fight with my ex-husband (I lied about a scratch on our van when Mount St. Helen’s blew and told him it was the ash that caused the paint to come off), and I think that’s been one of my downfalls. Not the lying, but the honesty. It gives the sociopath ammo to use against you later. [Funny thing my brother said to me, and that we got into a verbal argument about, was he told me he has NEVER lied!].

    As far as the gas lighting goes, when I have brought up gas lighting done by one family member against me to a different family member, each one pretended not to know what it is!!! Every sibling I have holds advanced degrees: my brother worked for the government as a wildlife biologist, my oldest sister was a teacher, and the sociopathic sister is an R.N. Not to mention that there’s a fabulous new invention called the “internet” where you can find thousands of hits for gas lighting – and then there’s the good old dictionary.

    I was made aware of the targeting on September 1, 2011, exactly a month after I turned 50, also the day my son left on a tour (he’s a sound engineer). I was mobbed while driving home one night from a friend’s house whose dog was dying (I looked on her facebook page, and the dog that was dying took a year and a half to die). I’d gone over to comfort her, and while I was there, she kept trying to get me to crawl into her dog’s house, which was covered with dog crap, and drag him out! I refused, saying he was OK, he might bite me, why don’t YOU do it? etc. Near my house, a car pulled up in front of mine and slowed way down so I was right on his rearend, and another car pulled right behind me, trapping me. I was in the right lane, and a line of cars pulled alongside me so I couldn’t get over and away. I was hysterical, terrified, and when they got me to the roundabout a couple blocks away, the car in front of me stopped, and dozens of cars, at least 50, drove by me with their brights on, horns honking, and shouting out their windows at me calling me filthy names. Then the car in front pulled away from me and I was in shock or I would have driven the other way, but all I could think to do was to get home! All the way to my house, about 6 or 7 blocks, the stream of cars kept going past me honking and the people yelling names at me out the windows. I finally thought to call 911, and the operator acted unconcerned. I told her the license number of the car in front of me and she said, “that’s not the number you just gave me ma’am!” I filed a police report and there was absolutely no follow up (I’m reminded of Larry’s surgery, and the complete lack of empathy from some docs and nurses). Since that day, I’ve been manipulated, lied to, demeaned, devalued, and now have been discarded.

    The sociopath sister, (SS? good abbreviation) in an email response asking her the name of a counselor that she and I both saw 20+ years ago (although separately for different reasons), and telling her I’ve been hiding the fact that a neighbor boy had molested me from the age of about 4-5 until I was 10 or 11, said, “Don’t delve into your childhood, just forget the past and move on.” This has been her motto all her life.
    So, gas lighting? Yeah, happens to me all the time, when I allow interaction with family. And now, as far as confronting her with any of this? It wouldn’t make any difference, and I just want to get away from “family”. You know the saying, you can pick your friends but you can’t pick your family? True, true, true.

  99. Larry Says:

    Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. (Source: Wikipedia)

  100. Larry Says:

    Artist,

    I had to look up “gaslighting” to make sure I understood what it meant, so I thought I’d just publish my findings for others.

    Considering the above, it’s likely a weapon in virtually every sociopath’s arsenal. It can be a very strong weapon, too.

  101. Blacksheep Says:

    Artist,

    I like the way you think! YOU need to be on a legal team and work for an attorney! Your talent and insight is PRICELESS!

    I’ve been keeping up with the Jodi Arias trial on HLN and she is a master manipulator and vindictive narcissist. They should reach a verdict Friday or early next week.

    The Prosecuting Attorney is doing an awesome job of PROVING she’s a vindictive narcissist and did not kill her ex boyfriend in self defense. She went there with a stolen gun and a PLAN; clearly premeditated murder.

    Yes Larry, I too had to look up ‘gas lighting’ and found the same as you did. And yes I do believe it’s a weapon of destruction, mass destruction, that can be used to successfully stop everyone from talking to one another and getting to the truth.

    I personally believe when a person uses ‘gas lighting’ on others it’s to keep them focused on the actions and deeds and words of others and NOT focused on the Sociopath. Clearly a diversion tactic.

    When the sociopath starts this THAT is the time to be looking into what the sociopath is doing behind everyone’s back!

    As Malone (Sean Connery) lie on the floor taking his last few breathes of life a fellow officer in the UNTOUCHABLES Squad knelt beside him, Malone (Sean Connery) asked him …. ‘What are you prepared to do?’

    Get prepared; you are NOT a defenseless victim! YOU have powerful weapons too! Learn what they are and USE THEM properly!

    The best force to fight off evil is good.
    When they are telling lies in your presence call ‘em on it. Do it right then and there, speak your peace as peaceably as you can but state the facts and do not let them get by with telling lies.

    IF they lay claim to possessing documentation on something ask to see it, ask every time you see them about it until you get that proof or they shut up about it. Point out the fact they have NOT PROOF. DO it in front of others, the sociopath HATES to be embarrassed!

    It’s difficult I know in the heat of the moment to keep your composure and not cower down and crawl off from embarrassment or go ballistic on them, but staying composed is Tops on the priority list. Never let ‘em see you sweat. Make them sweat instead. It will be a priceless life long memory you’ll cherish for the remainder of you life! AND it just might stop ‘em cold in their tracks and get ‘em to change their ways or …. they’ll leave you alone. Either way it’s a win win situation!

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  102. Blacksheep Says:

    Sandy,

    The incident on the roadway …. IF it ever happens again, head directly to the POLICE DEPARTMENT ….. DO NOT go anywhere else but there! THAT will show them you an’t gonna take no more of their BS. They’ll be afraid of getting caught and going to jail!
    If you do nothing but go in and use the bathroom, it will scare the bageebers out of ‘em!
    Then the ole ball is in YOUR court!

    If you would have pulled over and stopped the auto, they would have pulled over too and dragged you from your auto kicking and screaming and beat the crap out of you! I’ve seen it happen before and called 911, a 6 on one fight is NOT a fair fight! It’s revenge and should NEVER happen!

    People who participate in that type of abuse have lost all manor of control over their own lives. They let the manipulators take over everything.

    I’ve realized this morning that ‘gas lighting’ has been done to my poor Mother before she passed away and for about 18 years that I know of! Gas lighting is what is happening to my daughter as I type this and she will not wake up!

    I see clearly this morning the patterns of master manipulation of my entire family!

    VN in my family goes about ‘gas lighting’ with a vengeance. VN wants to live to see everyone fail and fail BIG TIME and also wants to KNOW VN caused it all. VN revels in the thoughts that VN has such power and control over all of us. VN actually BELIEVES VN has the birth right or is the heir apparent to all this all mighty ability VN thinks VN has over all of us. THE QUEEN BEE of the family and we should ALL bow down and kiss her feet for the privilege of even being related to her.

    I started changing the subject when VN would begin the BS. That stopped working and I’d leave the room and VN eventually began to follow me. That stopped working and I left the building! VN got the hint I was NOT going to participate in the VN crap in front of Mother. Mother’s last days should be spent with family all around that cared and not the bickering and fighting. I was NOT participating.

    Then again, my leaving is probably just what VN actually wanted so VN could bulley and coerce Mother. I should NOT have let that happen ever!

    I’ve always done things for people, especially family, out of love and care and concern for them; never for any type of payment or praise. I’m a care giver and have been all my life. For as long as my care giving served VN’s purposes I was just all right, no big scenes of praise or cards and letters of thanks, just alright, when I stopped serving VN’s purposes VN attempted to goad me into a verbal fight on the phone, a cussing match, and tried to record it. I heard the machine click when VN pushed the button and I kept my cool and didn’t let her goad me into bad behavior in front of my Mother who was very ill. I eventually hung up on VN. VN called back and gave Mother hell for over an hour because I hung up on VN’s so all mighty important bossy ass. Mother asked me WHY I hung up on VN and I simply stated enough had been said and I had other more important things to do than listen to the sound of the Bosses voice as I did her list of cleaning chores at Mother’s home for FREE.

    VN tried everything you can imagine to get me to stop helping my mother. VN even called my home on more than one occasion at 2 A.M. and wanted to ‘talk’ for two hours about trivial stuff. What’s on TV, the latest country song, new game sites, VN’s cat scratches, etc. All done to get me sleep deprived and not alert to what VN was up to. When I’d stay at Mother’s for weeks on end, I’d sit up in the dark and type notes about the events of the day so I could refresh my memory on the calls and the conversations with VN if I ever needed to; a diary of sorts.

    I was Mother’s first born and the last child VN had to run off from Mother so none of us would be wise enough to find the forgery.

    VN jumped my youngest sibling over money owed Mother and threatened to stomp YS in Mother’s front yard. YS told Mother she’d never darken her door again for as long as QUEEN BEE was there. She said,’ Mother, I’m a Christina now, I go to church and I take my children to church like you did us and I’m trying to live right and I am NOT going to subject my children to VN’s actions, attitude and mouth. VN makes your home sound and feel like a bar atmosphere and I’m not a bar queen like VN!

    My YS didn’t realize the entire drama was created for the sole purpose of isolating Mother from the entire family so that VN aka QB could manipulate about $100,000 out of Mother in bank loans on Mother’s home; PLUS covering up and hiding the forgery; took me 18 years and Mother’s death to figure out VN’s scheme/diabolical plans.

    VN is now in another state where VN has lived since about ’84, hundreds of miles away, no family associates with VN except my blinded daughter and my brother’s wife. Three sibling still living and seven nieces and nephews and their families VN could have a good relationship with and NO ONE associates with VN because of VN’s past actions.

    Karma is a bitch if YOU are.

    If we live good decent honest lives God will let us watch as the gas lighting manipulators fall from power. Just remember God is great, God is good. Be thankful there IS a God!

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  103. Blacksheep Says:

    Larry,

    I just realized my VN sibling has pack mentality! VN needs a pack of people believing VN and doing for Vn all the time. It’s part of the plan, it helps keep VN’s hands clean. The diciples do all the dirty work while VN takes all the credit and stirs up the crap.

    Yep pack mentality!

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  104. Blacksheep Says:

    Larry,

    I also just realized that ‘gas lighting’ is the ONLY weapon the sociopath has!

    Truth is on OUR SIDE not theirs!

  105. Blacksheep Says:

    Sandy,

    To quote you …..
    The sociopath sister, (SS? good abbreviation) in an email response asking her the name of a counselor that she and I both saw 20+ years ago (although separately for different reasons), and telling her I’ve been hiding the fact that a neighbor boy had molested me from the age of about 4-5 until I was 10 or 11, said, “Don’t delve into your childhood, just forget the past and move on.” This has been her motto all her life.

    Let’s walk through this with a little common sense okay?
    A councilor has rules and regulations to follow or they lose their privelage to be a councilor. Telling what one person said n a counciling session to another person in another counciling session is against the rules. What is said in a private coumciling session is to be kept private.

    Talk with the councilor in question here and ask if this ‘story’ was told. A councilor would never tell someone to NOT delve into the past. COuncilors help people deal with their past. Not hide from it.

    I suspect it’s just that …. a ‘story’, an untruth, all told to defame you and make you look like the broken one, the one with secrets to hide. So people will not look at the socioath so closely!

    Think about it and do some asking.

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  106. Artist Says:

    Thanks everyone for trying to understand what i have been trying to express!
    You Go Blacksheep!! You are a good person!!
    You are what i call, “Standing Tall”.
    Larry, thank you for reading my post and believing me that there is such a thing as Gas Lighting, and then verifying it, and then posting a good concise definition of it. Pathetic how rampant and destructive it is.
    No wonder the military uses Gas Lighting, huh?
    OK now, SEE WHAT I MEAN? GASLIGHTING IS A PATTERN. Liars have to use patterns because they cannot remember their lies otherwise. Weird how people do it and they don’t even know what it is called, isn’t it? Weird how they follow the same pattern but have never met each other.
    Take care everyone!
    Artist

  107. Blacksheep Says:

    Artist, Larry and all,

    All people every where need to listen and verify what’s being said to them.

    Nurses are trained to listen to the family of a patient, listen and observe the patient and report their observations to the doctor.
    They are NOT there to diagnose, that’s the doctors’ job.

    We need to train ourselves to listen and observe situations/drama while it’s happening/being created and even make notes or keep a diary of events when dealing with the sociopaths in our lives.

    We also need to stop making the same mistake I keep making and that be letting my own personal feelings get in the way of listening and observing.

    Sociopaths use the shock factor often to shut us up and get us to crawl off somewhere and be quite. We need to stop that too!

    We all need to be more like the old farmers duck, if it don’t rain, I’ll walk. Don’t let anything that is said get to you or shake you in any way. Stand Tall (thank you Artist!) Stand Strong, Stand Firm when asking for verifications, all this combined and done repeatedly will shake the sociopath to their very core!

    Vindictive Narcissist in my life has shut up and gone back to home in another state and no more contact what so ever when confronted in court and proven in court not once, not twice but THREE TIMES (and we an’t done yet!) VN is a liar.

    We’ve been told by local law enforcement in two counties VN will not be allowed to press charges on anyone ever again as VN has been branded a liar in court! At a guess VN is branded a liar in home county also as papers were served there also.

    It’s hard to defend one’s self in the heat of the moment, but if you can muster up the strength and courage to do it just once in front of others, others will begin to listen and observe and do as you have done and band with you eventually. You’ll have people coming to YOU with info to help you!

    It’s a slow struggle of a process but it can and should be done!
    Hiding is NOT an option, keeping quiet is NOT an option, so get up get to listening and observing and kick some sociopath behind!

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  108. Becca Says:

    Do these SP’s get theirs? My husband (been going through this divorce for three years) is doing character assassination on me and when and will karma catch up to him? He is 52 years old!

  109. Blacksheep Says:

    Becca,

    Anything he puts in writing he best be prepared to show proof of in a court of law.

    If he gave deposition or answered interrogatory questions he best have proof of every allogation he made against you or he can be held liable for it in court and fined and made to pay restitution to YOU for the damage he’s done.

    Vindictive narcissit sibling made allogations in writing via answers to interrogatory questions that my sister L had her son taken from her for neglect, VN can’t ptove that as it NEVER happened, our attorney has checked court records and no such thing ever happened. VN also stated in writing that L owed back rent on a home court house documents say L owned so how could L owe rent on a home L owned? VN also stated L owed $800 in back electric bills, a check with the electric company found the electric was never that expensive nor was it ever cut off and cut off day is the 20t of each and every month. VN also stated that L owed a big phone bill and a check with the phone company found no such record.

    Make him PROVE his allogations and when he can’t and the judge slaps him with a big fine and maybe some jail time and restitution he’ll learn to not let his alagator mouth over ride his humming bird behind!

    Old dogs can learn new tricks. Sit be the first one and shut up be the next one !~)

    Sincerely,
    Blacksheep

  110. LaTonya Says:

    I am at the end of my rope…I’ve been online searching for some sort of help/guidance and stumbled upon this site. I don’t know where to begin because it goes so far back. Here goes: I have come to the realization that both my mother and oldest brother are some sort of sociopath/narcissists. I am shaking as I write this because I am an emotional wreck. We were raised in what was painted as a picture perfect family. My sisters and I didn’t see the unhealthy family situations until we were in our 40′s. It’s as though we were in a cultish/brainwashed situation until then. Our father is a great man but has been controlled by them, beat down by them, etc. for so long he is basically vegetative. Every checklist of characteristics that I read is hauntingly accurate, sickening to say the least. In an effort to “find my way out of the web”, I made the mistake of trying to address unhealthy, ongoing situations within the family. The more I learn, I find that that is the worst thing to do because you will never win. The immediate issue that I am struggling with is being under attack, accused of things that aren’t mine to own. My “healthy minded” family members are being sucked into the accusations being leveled against me and I fear that once again, I am losing them. My mother and brother are SO able to plant the seeds of doubt in such a subtle way. I have spent the last two days in bed, feeling like I can’t keep picking myself up. I have always been such an optimist, but I am just so weary. They just keep pecking at my heart…I need some thread of encouragement.

  111. Wontgetfooledagain! Says:

    Hi everyone;

    I’ve been reading all the posts on here and have found them fascinating, that is of course not belittling the suffering visited upon you all by vindictive sociopaths. My thoughts are with you all and hope that by now (2-3 years later) some of you have found some peace of mind!

    Let me describe my own circumstances for you all: Our family imploded very early (I was 10 youngest sibling was 7), largely due to my father who had a rough time of it in his life, I would not describe him as a sociopath per-se, merely a narcissistic and incredibly selfish personality (both “qualities” sociopaths possess admittedly). Needless to say he destroyed the family home environment and with it the “Family unit”. Eldest 2 siblings went independent (aged 17 & 19), youngest 3 moved away with mother (aged 7, 10{ME} & 13). I have since grown up (now 35), bought my own property and completed my University/College degree in psychology.

    The sociopath in question is my sister (13 year old from paragraph above, now 38). Her personality has always been very different from the rest of the siblings, she would manipulate situations/blatantly lie/tell half truths/say things to cause 7 year old nightmares/etc etc, but up to a point you might say this was “expected” in some cases, that these behaviours would eventually phase out as child matures. This has not been the case however…

    Aged 17; Sociopathic sister (SS was it?) attempted to convince her two siblings (myself & younger bro) that our mum was going mad, her sanity was really in question and something needed to be done about it. These conversations were isolated to us, none of these issues would be spoken about in the presence of mum. To contextualise for you all: due to various unacceptable behaviours exhibited by SS (bringing total strangers home to sleep with her, mum met one on her landing totally naked in the morning as he exited the toilet, drug use/dealing pot from the house, general anti-social conduct like not sharing chores and certainly not condescending to contribute to the utility bills/groceries despite consuming the most food in the household). These issues were tackled at the times in question causing massive upset and discord to all involved. For the benefit of everyone else, mum was considering asking SS to move out (something she felt comfortable enough to have confided in me). To be continued…

  112. Wontgetfooledagain! Says:

    I came home from work one day to find my sister crying in the hall hysterically, my brother ashen faced and obviously in shock. Mum had “attacked” SS, this had been observed by YS. SS immediately claimed that we needed to contact the relevant authority and have mum “sectioned” for her own and our protection. I refused this “order” and stated that once mum had returned to the home, I would discuss the situation with her myself, before reaching a conclusion as I already suspected “Gas lighting”, which is something my father engaged in on occasion, so was already familiar to me…something stank…SS was describing somebody I did not recognise and calling them mum!

    Mum returned, of course SS testimony was complete BS, the whole thing had been an elaborate performance for YS’s benefit. Mum had been antagonised non-stop for almost 2 hours by SS, YS returns home and BANG (push the detonate button). This explanation was far more plausible under the circumstances, as a reaction the the anti-social behaviour of SS. As you can guess…this was a strange day for me….but very educational.

    As I considered what had occurred, I started to revisit some of the other childhood experiences with a “clean pair of eyes”, this was not an isolated incident..but in fact just the most recent. I think it was at this point that I decided to study Psychology (so ironically something positive arose from the negativity).

    Over the years SS has continued in much the same way. She dragged her college/Uni courses out for 10 years instead of the usual 4/5, enabling her to “Blag” (UK phrase for coerce something) years of student support finance. At the same time claiming jobseekers allowance (Welfare), which is totally illegal as you have to be available to work, can’t do that if you’re in lectures, she managed it because mum was convinced to let her use mums home address for cheques to be posted to, welfare went to SS home address. Already mum is unwittingly an accessory to financial fraud (something many, many of you have described on this very forum!) I have so many stories I wish I had time to disclose to you all, but am already on post#2!

    Over the years she has “morphed” and altered, chameleon-like in her attempts to manipulate and control the emotions and thoughts of others. She has tried using 1)Family loyalty 2)Guilt trips 3)Suicide{Faux} 4)Religion & 5)Life threatening illness to name just a few. Throughout all of this; many behaviours remain, so let me detail them for you.

    She has never worked, always claimed welfare/benefits, she is never to blame for anything..it is always someone else’s fault (whatever happens), the world owes her, you/I owe her, nobody has suffered the way she has, self-obsession (I cannot recall a single occasion where she asks me about me), gifts are second-hand items she no longer wants, at family gatherings she never contributes financially (seriously..not thinking of bringing a bottle or some food to an xmas family gathering!), she never has any money (spent £1500 on a new computer she needs for her “art”, which is also the reason she cannot get a full time job-she is a struggling artist) I could go on…

    The capacity for self-delusion and manipulation of historic events is astounding (classic gas-lighting), as is the complete lack of empathy and concern for the plight and suffering of others. Through all of this…one thing has given myself/mum the upper hand….the truth. Like Larry suggests; arm yourself with the truth, challenge them AT THE TIME OF THE EVENT, if you allow the lie to exist EVEN REMOTELY it will become a truth to them and part of the web of lies. I hope reading this helps somebody else, it was cathartic to get some of it out in the open! If anyone would like to correspond, let me know on here (as long as Larry condones it). Thanks for reading…Won’tgetfooledagain!

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