When looking at your sociopath, all you see is another person. What you will never see is that person’s history.
Updated 15 July 2012
No matter who you are, how powerful you are, what profession you’re in, how smart you think you are, how many friends you think you have … no matter what you think you’ve got that no one else has, try to understand the risk is too high to expose, or take on a sociopath or psychopath.
Try to accept that your best chance of maintaining your quality of life is to forget it and move on. The odds are entirely against you.*
It’s what you don’t know.
This sociopath used you, and your innocent actions resulted in someone losing something (the who and what are not important here). It was by complete chance that you discovered the sham. The sociopath is currently unaware that you know.
You don’t want to see it happen to anyone else. From your good, honest upbringing, you want to expose this guy and make him pay for damages, so as to make sure he won’t do it again.
You believe in accountibility.
Very admirable.
Your sociopath first recognized his outwardly differences from most other people about 30 years ago. He’s intelligent, keenly attentive, shrewd, cunning, and manipulative. His experience has raised him to a level that woud be considered a master at what he does.
And what he does is only to benefit himself at the cost of others. Without the normal feelings of remorse and guilt, or any other typical human emotion, he has always slept well at night. What he did to you is a regular, almost daily offensive deed in this guy’s life. It’s considered small stuff. Some of his disciples actually help him with the small stuff. One can say that the small stuff pays the utilities.
The Other Stuff.
But only your sociopath, himself, knows about the other stuff … the other stuff is actully the large stuff. He maintains complete control because of the risks. The large stuff falls under corporate white-collar crime. The large stuff is criminal.
What the sociopath knows extremely well are the details of the large stuff and the legal gravity they represent.
You are only aware of the one little thing he used you for, and that’s what you want him to pay for.
The sociopath has long known that getting busted for all those unsolved crimes would just about guarantee incarceration for the rest of his life.
What level of risk did you just move yourself into?
In the eyes of the sociopath, getting your vindication could very easily result in his full exposure, meaning that the Law would be provided enough evidence to match your sociopath up to an unknown number of unsolved crimes. He’ll never let that happen; if he wants to live freely, he can’t let it happen.
He knows he must act fast, with something I call “offensive-revenge.” He does not know if you will act, but out of paranoia, he assumes you will. He’s never looked at a risk like this before, but as he learned long ago, whatever needs to get done, simply needs to get done. That’s all the justification required.
He knows you must never be heard from again.
So at a minimum, he will assassinate your character. Decimate it. And when that happens, people will begin to avoid you. Your friends will become distant and eventually vanish. And because no one will speak with you, no one will tell you what they were told. You’ll have no idea why your friends ignore you, as they have been thoroughly sucked into the lies.
I know this all to well on a personal level. It’s a terribly lonely place to be.
###
*The odds were calculated by my own experiences and those reported to me by other victims — never have I heard of a successful victim.
October 8th, 2010 at 02:41
Hi Larry,
Hope all is as well as it can be.
Love the latest post.
SOOOOOOO true … its scary.
October 12th, 2010 at 11:11
Keep writing. You’re so good at it and I think it’s good for you.
October 12th, 2010 at 16:35
Ray, Thanks!
Carol, Hopefully it provides some value for you, too.
April 22nd, 2011 at 03:31
I would like to know how to trip up a sociopath,and beat him at his own game. I have evidence of some of his screwups, and also what the cops did to protect him. I would like to know if you know anyone who has actually caught one in his tracks ? I don’t want to say too much,as not only has he managed to hack into my computer, he has also wrecked havok on my credibility.
Can I videotape him,as he is stalking my Daughter ? That might be all the evidence I need. I have also made various posts,of which I’m sure he has read,but I purposely change the story, so he doesn’t know which way to go. We have also witnessed him putting a gun to his own head before. But I know he would Never ever hurt Himself … cause he is one of the above !
May 21st, 2011 at 21:29
Hi, Rosie. I would honestly say try to distance yourself. Reread the above post. If this person fits the sociopathic profile, you need to make sure you understand what this means. Imagine someone who has no conscience, so experiences no guilt, who has no empathy – doesn’t even see you as human, only looks at you in terms of what you can do for him, what he can use you for. Someone who, if he thinks you are an obstacle to his getting what he wants, will do whatever it takes to put you out of his way. If he really is sociopathic, he’s very, very dangerous. Don’t take him on.
If he’s stalking your daughter, of course you want to protect her. I would say that even if you collect months worth of video footage, and tape recordings, and you manage to take the case to court, the odds of them finding in your favour are still slim – these people are expert manipulators, and getting the case thrown out of court is as easy as deliberately winding you up when it’s your turn in the witness box. Even if you do win, and an injunction is granted against them, you’ll just make them feel like you’ve “won”, come out on top. And as far as they’re concerned, they simply canNOT let that happen.
I know it’s completely unfair, as well as a huge effort, but do whatever you can to simply disappear from this guys line of sight. Move house if you can. It seems extreme, but once you do a little more research, you’ll realise for yourself that the only way to protect yourself is to take yourself as far away from these people as is possible.
Good luck!
July 30th, 2011 at 04:45
I’m aiming to sue my ex-boss, who I believe is somewhere in this spectrum of sociopathic disorder.
I am confused by your advice (seemingly somewhat conflicting) that these people are frighteningly good in court and don’t even bother tangling with them, versus the fact that you successfully fought your ex-wife for full custody of your children!
Frankly, I am worried because this person is limitlessly bad, but on the other hand the law seems to be on my side regarding a wrongful dismissal.
July 30th, 2011 at 23:59
Hi Maria,
I agree it can appear conflicting, and I appreciate the opportunity to clear it up. My point is that you do not want to go into court with the purpose of branding someone a psychopath or sociopath. You’d likely be torn apart in cross-examination. You may strongly suspect it, but do not mention it in court.
Build your case, stick to the facts, and present substantiated evidence. Keep your cool. That’s your best way of winning.
In my divorce, we never made it to court. She was having an affair and I played naive. She filed, and when I answered, part of the answer demanded a psychological evaluation and drug testing. Four days after she received my answer, she threw in the towel, agreeing to give me virtually everything.
I assumed she did not want her “new” family to get wind of her many psychological disorders. Six days after the divorce was final, she remarried.
It was not until years later I discovered she would have also failed the drug test.
I hope this clears it up a bit.
July 31st, 2011 at 03:31
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your clarifications and what you say makes sense. I have no intention of branding ex-boss as a sociopath, although I think – and hope – that the facts will speak for themselves that this woman acted so callously and cynically that it is obvious she never had any intention of honouring the original contract she gave me and in addition tried harassing/bullying me out of the job.
The thing I find hard to get over is how I was so fooled by this woman in the interview that I thought she was a decent old lady with real human values. Later I found out that in her youth she trained as an actress, so that probably makes her even more able to put across a good persona. I’m usually quite perceptive about people but this one completely passed under my radar.
I’ve learned that sociopaths can appear charming, convincing, vulnerable, intelligent, decent people. They are masters of manipulation and deceit, maybe because they temporarily believe their own spiel. They also love to try it on evoking pity. While they shit on all and sundry they like to make out that it’s the other way around and they’ve been so wronged! I’m sure you know all this from your own bitter experiences but this is the first time I’ve been so personally effected by someone with this lack of humanity and I am still amazed at how awful yet credible these people can be.
I still have nightmares. Interesting what you say elsewhere about the genetics of it. Two of her daughters work for her and it is kind of obvious that one of them is like her and the other one isn’t; one is ruthless and perpetually aggressive and the other one is kind of chronically depressed and has obviously been a victim of her mother and sister.
Thanks for all your writing on this site. It is really helpful to get perspective and get wise to this stuff.
August 1st, 2011 at 15:03
If the sociopath (in my case my sister) is making a concerted effort to destroy my career (by sleeping with the CEO of the company I do considerable business with, and getting him to cancel my contract as well as other things) then should I just go along with this? I am also confused.
I don’t know the extent of her lies, though they are surfacing and you are right whenever it looks like I have enough crap on her, she either plays the victim or starts another set of lies (really they go together). I can go elsewhere for business, but the underlying problem is still there. We both work in the same field (after I got her first opportunity – biggest mistake I ever made in my life and I’ve made a few).
It seems that she is able to use people’s better nature to get ahead and then attack them for having a better nature.
August 2nd, 2011 at 20:46
Susan,
Every situation is as much similar as it is different. Should you go along with this? No.
But I rarely, if ever, hear that a victim wins out over a sociopath. They have nothing to lose (in their minds), will lie as if it’s the solemn truth (even under oath), and will gain pity for themselves.
I can’t say I’ve won (yet) as the damage has been done to me long before I knew, with all the sociopath’s followers backing up their stories, it falls under majority rules, which is completely flawed.
I suggest finding a good therapist, one you can connect with and understands your plight, and seek professional advice. If you don’t feel you are not connecting with them, find someone else … they’re all different.
I wish you the best.
August 21st, 2011 at 19:13
Larry.
I just found out my brother is the one who’s been calling on the phone for the past 2 1/2 years & hanging up. He told my mother out right yesterday.
He tried to justify it too. Said he wants to talk to mom but when I answer he hangs up. (He’s done it to my mom too even when she asks if its him and identifies herself. He pauses for a minute or so, you can hear a tv in the background, then hangs up.) He had his daughter call my home once & ask for my mom.
I want to have my phone number changed but cannot afford it. So the ringers left off. He must be getting bored. His daughter got the job at the police dept a month ago. I knew he would start his crap again! I thought about calling the police dept and making a complaint. But I don’t know if they will do anything. I am trying to talk mom into moving far away to SO CAL with my sister.
He is afraid of her. That would take away all his fun of harrassing me.
August 21st, 2011 at 19:26
Debbie,
If he is afraid of your sister, meaning he would not call her, who would he have left to harass? He won’t just stop.
If anyone is harassing you, the police may be able to help. You need to ask them during their business hours, unless an event occurs requiring 911. You can have a criminal trespass warning given to him covering your home. If he shows up, you would call 911 and he would get arrested.
October 16th, 2011 at 17:37
Sorry this is lengthy but I’ve just recently put all the pieces of an over 2 year puzzle together. The man I loved is apparently a sociopath. And, he has a criminal record to boot.
Didn’t seem terribly awful in the beginning…seemed like a string of bad luck but upon further reading…he’s textbook. He always thought I was being unfaithful to him and lying about it. It seemed to really kill him that he couldn’t figure out if I was lying or not.
I was totally devoted. He also heard someone call him a “trophy” (he’s really handsome)…and none of my friends really ever trusted him. That really bothered him. He got nasty with me so I left him. He tried to win me back.
Went on vacation with another woman and posted pictures where my friends would see them and denied it when I brought it up. Now, he says he doesn’t want anything to do with me but, yet, called me 35 times, texted 14 times and sent a few email in one day because he wanted to know if we were getting together to f***.
Now, he says I’m better off without him…out of a fake relationship. (I knew that months ago!) He says that’s the “last email” but should I believe him? I just don’t know if I should start talking to the police now or if he tries to contact me again? Any insight is appreciated.
October 16th, 2011 at 19:00
Hi Melanie,
Your comment is not lengthy, it’s about average. You obviously have not seen some of the comments; they are longer than some of my posts.
You certainly cannot hurt matters by talking to the police. You can have police issue him a Criminal Trespass Warning, but I don’t know if they must be called while he’s on your property or not. That warning simply means that if he steps on your property again, he can be arrested for Criminal Trespass. That, of course, won’t keep him from emailing or calling you, as for that, I believe you’d need a Restraining Order, something which is signed by a judge.
You can set-up a filter in your email client software to delete all incoming messages from his email address. You’ll never even see them.
All you need to do is go to your local police station during business hours (with your copious notes) and ask to speak with an officer, detective, or the supervisor on-duty. Someone will talk to you. You’ll get the most benefit if you ask direct questions based on specific actions of your ex-husband, events that likely concerned or scared you.
I hope that helps.
October 16th, 2011 at 19:53
Thank you, Larry.
He hasn’t shown up on my door step…but I am going to ask to have my locks changed. It’s been a quiet day…so I can only hope that he’s found another mark. I know he has a girl overseas that thinks she’s in a relationship with him.
But, I guess, it couldn’t hurt to start talking to a case officer. Sociopaths can go away for a while and then come back, right?
October 16th, 2011 at 20:08
You’re welcome.
Sociopaths (aka: psychopaths) will do anything they damn well please. It’s their narcissistic nature. He could come back in a week, a month, or a year or more. The most vial thing my ex ever did to me took place 11 years after our divorce.
Change your locks, your phone number, your email address … and best of all: your state of residence.
October 16th, 2011 at 20:26
One thing I do know about his personality is that he is one heck of a lazy sociopath. His immigration status is in question for fraud so I’m hoping that INS will take care of my problem for me. I’m gonna just lay low for a while…and see what happens. I really don’t want to have to move, if I don’t have to. Thanks for the advice. (11 years is a long time to lay in wait though…yikes!)
October 17th, 2011 at 12:46
I have just made my first appointment with a counselor to help me sustain myself. I must be able to react or not react in a manner that will allow me to remain calm and combat this psycho intelligently.
It is getting very exhausting bobbing and weaving all day long 24/7, 365!
Larry is this an acceptable way for me to go? I am not able to move away since we have a child together.
October 17th, 2011 at 16:28
Becca,
I think it’s an excellent way to go. If your first therapist feels distant about your dilema, then find another. Your first appointment should be analyzing the analyst. Pose questions to them about their experience with psychopathy. They may have none.
Do not say your ex is a sociopath, but say your ex has X-many sociopath traits, and be able to discuss them. Watch how the person reacts to you. I know a couple clinical psychologists personally, and they are whacked.
A chiropractor once told me that he entered his profession because he had a bad back. Then he said, “Consider psychologists.”
December 23rd, 2011 at 22:14
OMG….why am I just now finding this site? If only I had read this at the beginning of my nightmare. Larry thanks for posting…you are such a great and helpful read. I wish there was a way to educate people about sociopathic creeps BEFORE the lay waste to the innocent and unsuspecting. Good job YOU!
December 23rd, 2011 at 23:50
Pravacee,
Those are very kind words … thank you!
The problem is that unless someone has first-hand experience with a sociopath, they will not want to believe that some people are really like that.
I’ve personally tried to warn people, and then I usually don’t hear from them as much anymore. They think it’s just my imagination.
Thanks again.
December 26th, 2011 at 21:22
Well, when the time came to change the TRO to a 5year Order…I lost. I had a stack of evidence. He had letters of recommendation.
He said I was just “jealous”…the evidence the judge was holding showed he had been harassing me. And, I froze…I couldn’t fight for myself. I shut down. And, in the end…he walked with a stern warning from the judge to stay away from me.
I got home and found keys under the front wheels of my car…pointing into them ready to puncture them when I rolled back. Luckily I had had a ride to the courthouse. Then he took the “victory lap”…two notes to friends of mine gloating over how the judge saw my allegations as “frivolous”. I found a trauma counselor…and am trying to work it out.
I never realized what a mind fuck it was until I went dead in court. The damage is deeper than I had thought. I’m just thankful I haven’t heard from him. I am realizing that it is better to have lost this battle and not be tied to this person by a legal matter.
Now…if I am lucky…he is gone…but I wonder if I’ll always feel like I’m waiting for something.
December 26th, 2011 at 21:44
Melanie,
I, for one, wish you a lot of luck.
Our justice system has turned into a joke, infiltrated by sociopaths. I once had all the evidence in my hand and the judge wouldn’t look at it, and when I didn’t sit down at the speed he wanted me to (2 seconds) he threatened to throw me in jail. Less than two years later, he resigned in disgrace when he was caught banging a public defender in the back seat of a car. He presided over 250 of her cases. Scum.
What sharp eyes to see that key. Don’t let your guard down. Get a restraining order to help protect yourself.
December 27th, 2011 at 21:58
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your story, as your story seems more eccentric than mine. Would like some insight into my story.
My encounter with the sociopath began in highschool at 16 years of age, my younger brother started highschool at this time who was 12. My brother and I are completely different in both in looks and in personality. I am the outgoing type, whereas my brother is the reserved type, we are like salt and pepper, never really understood why as we grew up in the same home by the same parents, we always got along though being different.
I used to notice that everytime the socipath came over, he would always want to go see and talk to my brother (fair enough), sometimes I would be in my own room when this was happening and other times I would walk in my brothers room and start joking as usual (I have always been a bit of a clown). I noticed this funny pattern as my other friends who came over would not walk to my brothers room and sit there for long periods of time talking to him, thay would say hello and have small talk and let him be, different to what the spath would do anyway,
To make a long story short, the sociopath helped my brother get a job at the same company as the Spath. At the time I thought that was very noble of him, considering my brother is naive, shy reserved. Unfortunately while working under the sociopath, he would come home stressed and paranoid about how he was not performing well at work. I used to ask myself why is my brother like this, it was just a call centre job, cant be that difficult. I still didn’t know I had a sociopath in our lifes.
Fast forward a year, I actually moved in with the sociopath in the City, a 2 bedroom apartment leased for 1 year. Just before we moved in, I attended the company Christmas party where the sociopath and my brother worked. I met my ex girlfriend at this party who worked with my brother and the sociopath.
During this time the Sociopath was seeing my ex’s cousin. We were both in living in the apartment when one day……………………………………… This is where I noticed my Radar detecter going off! Red flags came flying in.
RED FLAG 1:
(2007 January) Him, I and his girlfriend where sitting in the balconey one night, when he mentioned clouds running through the city sky scrapers, and I said “It isn’t cloud, its fog.” He insists it cloud! where as I persisted it was fog, why? Because our city skyscrapers aren’t high (Melbourne, Aus) not like NY anyway, add to the fact that clouds to go as low to ground as on the road which is where the fog was aswell. No the sociopath with the fact that ot was fog still insisted it was cloud! I said since when do clouds move with car traffic in Melbourne?” He still insisted it was cloud! I wouldn’t back down when I knew he was wrong! His girlfriend broke our argument as I would have kept going until I was blue in the face, and she probable had enough of our argueing. I am not the type to back down, but I do admit when I am wrong, but this was not the case.
RED FLAG 2:
(2007 February) The Sociopath and I brought a small dining table, he decided to build it. His girlfriend was also over at the time, when I noticed he was struggling to put the legs of the table together, He then called me over wanting help with the table, so I went and helped him put the legs on the table and suddenly yells at me “insert name F.uck off!”. At this point I am thinking to myself WTF, first he asks for help, then he’s telling me where to go. I was bewildered at this point, thinking what is wrong with this person and this is where things changed between him and I.
We became distant, when eventually he apologised (not an empathic apology, a sociopathic one) as he told me his girlfriend thinks he was rude to me. I noticed ‘the girlfriend thought he was rude, he didn’t think he was rude!’ We weren’t close any more, someting was a miss, who could turn 180 degrees in such a short period of time?
A week later my girlfriend at the time(his girlfriends cousin) decided to break up with me. Obviously Im hurt from the break up as I loved this girl, so my emotions at this point in time were running wild, she breaks up with me for no real reason as she did this via text, and I am still bewildered at trying to figure out who is this supposed friend of 10 years?
I was in a state of what did I do to my girlfriend? and what is wrong with my friend. Mind you me and the ex were still technically friends as we would email each other on what was happening. I told her about the table incident.
RED FLAG 3:
(2007 March) The Sociopath and his girlfriend come over late one night and I was wearing nothing but my underwear, as soon as he saw me in just my underwear he yells at me “Insert name put some clothes on will you!” So I did. Then the next day I snapped, “I’m thinking, I am comfortable in my own home wearing underwear and I am getting told off, was I supposed to know his girlfriend is coming over?” A week later the same thing happened, I kept quiet. The next day I told the sociopath off and said” How about you let me know when she is coming over, and I’ll have some clothes on, otherwise I’ll be naked next time!”
I told my ex about this story as well in an email, I also told her “why do only my friends come to my apartment, where are his friends? I don’t know who he is anymore, I have never seen him like this?”
I started clueing in at this stage as I asked myself why is he such a control freak, and has no friends? I Then I answered to myself no wonder he has no friends if he has this attitude.
RED FLAG 4: Devalue and discard was in effect
(2007 March) The sociopath has decided to move out and live with his girlfriend after 2 and half months, I said fine, but your still paying your half of the rent, which he did surprisingly.
RED FLAG 5:
(2007 June) I havent spoken to the sociopath in 3 months, only to find out from my brother that he is now engaged, I asked my brother why he hasn’t told me yet, and my brother said “he wants to tell you peronally” I am thinking hmmmmm.
RED FLAG 6:
I recieve a text from my ex (who I know still loved me) asking if I was coming to the engagement party. I told her “he hasn’t even told me his enegaged, and that I am not supposed to know, as he was going to tell me personally.”
2 weeks later, the sociopath comes over, mind you his bed and some of his clothes and belongings are still in the apartment. He decides to tell me he got engaged. I congratulated him, but i noticed he wasn’t very excited about it and stated that he’s engagement party consists of “its just family”. I started getting really suspicious here, as obviously he keeps in contact with my ex, but I thought, well he is in engaged to her cousin.
RED FLAG 7:
(2008 February) The ex and I are back together, I have moved back to my parents place to save up for a house. Only to notice the ex being distant from me as we broke up again. I wanted to get things resolved, so I caught up with her, only to find out she is really upset with me and starting mentioning my past with an ex of mine, which I never went to detail avout her to my ex as it was in the past. The radar went off again, as there is only one person who knew about my ex-ex so well. And I gave my ex the details of my past.
I said to my ex ” I haven’t said anything to the sociopath yet!) and she said “Thanks”. I reached another WTF moment. Why is my ex thanking me because I haven’t told the sociopath off? I am thinking to myself why is so and so saying things about my past to my ex. I don’t have anything to hide about my past, because I broke up amicably with my ex -ex so I wasn’t worrying about my current ex knowing about what happened in the past. I was worried about the fact that my supposed friend is telling my ex things when its none of his flaming business what happened in the past with my ex-ex and why is he getting involved now with my current ex?
Yet my ex thinks weme and sociopath are best friends. We were good friends but never best, I know who my best friends are, infact I started noticing who my real friends are.
I started noticing my ex must be really naive to think this is the case because if that was the case she wouldn’t be asking the Sociopath that I be the best man at his wedding. The sociopath once again used the excuse: “its just family” .
My current ex and I broke up again, obviously trust issues.
RED FLAG 8: The sociopath wedding
(September 2008) The wedding day, I just got back from sunny Italy, had the time of my life, I was tanned, looking good confident didn’t give a rats about the world. I was my old self still a clown, a funny prick as my friends called me.
It was show time for the sociopath. I was seated in the very back last table of the reception with an old friend of mine as we good friends in high school and obviously the sociopath, as I was not asked to be best man but my ex was the ‘maid of honour’.
After a few drinks and catching up on old times with my old friend who happened to be seated on the same table as me. I decided to walk up to my ex who was seated on the Bride and Grooms main table, and started having a chat and obciously a laugh. This ex still loved me obviuosly as she would have run when she saw me, but instead she smiled and talked about the good times. When suddenly I see her looking towards the Groom (sociopath) and see a frightened and scared face, to which I quickly turned around looked at the Groom, and what was he doing? giving her a mean stare that I couldn’t put my finger on. And I quickly looked back at her and glanced quickly back at him and he seemed OK again.
I actually caught him in the act???
I went back to my table and started having a conversation with my old friends wife, we were talking about my holiday, about women, she knows I love oriental women (all my ex’s have been oriental, I have yellow fever), she asked me “why do you love oriental women?” I said I really don’t know, i love asian women! I had no real answer it’s what I liked, not that I would refuse a caucasian women, I considered asian women as kind and caring, and that I’ve always had a Tokyo fetish, as its my favourite city.
She then proceeds and aks ” is it because there submissive?” Submissive, I said no, why would I care if there submissive? I love them for who they are. My old friend and his wifed asked me over for dinner.
I walked away that night asking myself again, why is she asking me these kinds of questions?
I never ended up going for dinner with them, which i regret!
RED FLAG 9.
I found out that my ex was with someone else during this time, I was a little heart broken, as I loved this girl regardless of the problems, I knew she loved me, and that the sociopath was feeding her with lies. I still didn’t know he was a sociopath, but I knew he was the problem, but what I really wanted to know was the why why why? He was doing this? What does he again? What was his obsession with me going out with his wifes cousin? Why does he care?
RED FLAG 10:
(October 2009) I moved on, my girlfriend was forgotten, I hadn’t heard from the sociopath in 9 months. When I heard from the grapevine that my ex wanted me back! I couldn’t believe it, I knew she loved me and I loved her, but i didn’t want any more heartbreak, I don’t think I could take any more punishment from her, as she always initiated the break ups. She added my brother on facebook, this is confirmed she wanted me back.
Coincidently the sociopath makes contact, i clued in on this as well, everytime my ex wants to get back with me the sociopath always magically made an appearance. I still couldn’t connect the dots, and I still had no idea he was a sociopath.
I SHOULD MENTION THAT I NEVER SPOKE ABOUT MY EX TO THE SOCIOPATH, NEVER. I knew what he thought he knew, I wasn’t aware that he knew EVERYTHING! which I later found out.
It was either meant to be or it wasn’t this time. I was in a bar with my mate and I noticed my ex’s friend, who coincdently happened to work with my mate. I am not a beliver of coincidence’s but this was how it was, as my mate wasn’t aware that I knew her, and her know me. It’s a small world.
Her friend and I were talking and she stated that she wants me back and that she was sorry for all that has happened. I thought to myself I love my ex, but I can’t take any more pain, so I lost it at her friend, and explained to her what is wrong with your friend? (my ex).
All I heard was Blah Blah, as I acted upset, but honestly I wasn’t I knew she loved me, but I put on an act to see, how the sociopath would react at me rejecting my ex as I knew he would find out about it, as I really didn’t want his involvement this time. I actually thought to myself, if he doesn’t think I want her back he might let me and her go?
Oh was I wrong, why? Because a week later after telling her friend off, I emailed my ex, explaining to her that what I did was wrong and that I shouldn’t have taken it out on her friend. I made a silly excuse and stated that “I did it for my brother, as I am extremely protective of him!” I also stated that if she really wants to talk and get back together with me, I would leave the door open.
What possessed me to write such a thing? What has my brother got to do with all this? I have no idea why I wrote it, but it was supposed to happen as you will later find out.
I hadn’t heard from her, she never replied to my email. Something was wrong, I would have heard from her by now? She deleted my brother from facebook. Something was seriously a miss.
RED FLAG 11:
(November 2009) I find out my ex is back with the rebound guy, it still didn’t make sense didn’t she want me back about 4 weeks ago.?
I was invited to a New Years Party by my Sociopath friend organised by him and it was a “family” event.
I didn’t want to go, but something told me to go, even though he set this drama filled event up. I knew this it was his manipulation, and I knew he was up to know good. I KNEW!
I knew she was going to be there, and he never told me that she was back with her ex/rebound, as I thought to myslef, you would think he would tell me this? I had the option to not go, but honestly something was telling me to go. I am fearless when it comes to her, I knew she till loves me. why am I doing this you ask? Because this was supposed to happen.
I went to the his other show, his NYE party. I arrive, dressed to kill as I knew he has staged all this (yet I still have no idea he is a sociopath). As I arrive I see my ex bolt, she literally runs out of the party, as I knew she wasn’t expecting me there, I did it to prove how much I loved her or how stupid I was
I start seeing his wife and my ex’s and the sociopath family and start greeting everyone, ex’s boyfriend get’s up to shake my hand (the ex’s boyfriend knew I was coming obviously the sociopath has staged this, I know who the ex is, he is afraid of me and is as shy as they come I consider him to be exactly like brother personality wise), but the sociopath has grabbed me to get some food, acting as if I have gotten upset at the boyfriend, only to have the sociopath turn around and drag the boyfriend inside to show that I was going to hit him. I thought to myself this guy is good, even on impulse he has found an excuse to attack me, he was better prepared than I was even though we both knew he was playing a game.
There were too many people around that would of noticed I did nothing! which is why I kept strong and ignored all that had just happened. Regardless ehe sociopath used his instinctive imulsive nature to try and make me look bad, he wasn’t going to lose, then again I wasn’t prepared to lose either, we both knew his game, but alas I was still blind as I still didn’t know he was a sociopath until……..
At the party he said to me ” So your protecting your brother hey?” My head was spinning at this point, the matrix was unveiled. He knows everything, he must have read my email to my ex, this guy knows it all.
Unfortunately for the sociopath, I was still at the party and acted like nothing had happened. My ex and her boyfriend went home 20 mins later, I stayed till the end talking to all the family.
I told my brother all that had happened, and told my brother not to tell the sociopath anything about me, as they still work in the same building, only this time my brother works in a different department. My brother told me “such and such always asks about you” and just to make sure, I asked my brother and what do you say”nothing”. The sociopath still probes my brother with questions………
Hasn’t he had enough, he just took away someone I loved, what more does he want know? I asked my brother what questions does he ask you? “Who your seeing, what are you doing?” By this time I had trained my brother what to say and what not tho say to the sociopath, i was predicting his movements without even know who he really was. I was proud of my brother, I was protecting myself and my brother as I started to think if the sociopath is capable of doing this to me, my brother has got no chance against the sociopath!
RED FLAG 12:
(December 2010) I haven’t seen the sociopath in a year, I fell in love with my now girlfriend, I had new good, brought a new house. I still had no idea he was a sociopath, until I recieved a text message from him saying “My mother has passed away”. I read the text carefully, as it was written for many people not just me.
I called him expressed my condolences. This time I paid attention to his manipulative techniques “your the only one that I’ve told about this” I thought to myself really, why is the text message written in plural as opposed to singular? I knew he was up to something, but I wanted to piss him off, as I have been at war with this man for nearly 4 years. He never really showed any emotion on the phone, as if his mother never existed, as he was talking about life in general, he then asked “Are you seeing anyone” I lied: “I said no I just broke up with my girlfriend.” I knew I was baiting myself with that one……
I went to see him for the wake, he made sure my ex and her boyfriend weren’t around this time, which surprised me I thought he had some other drama filled game ready for me, after all i was single.
While at his mother’s wake, i gave his wife flowers, pretended like nothing happened on the new years eve party, I was myself joking around, cool and confident, he was furious at me I could see that look in his eye. Although he put on a show like he was a good guy by offereing me food and treating me well.
I noticed his wife trying to analyse me, as she would often stare at me as if something was wrong, was she analysing me because she thought something was wrong with me? or was she analaysing me because she thinks something is wrong with him?
Was she oblivious to all that has happened, with me and her cousin? I put on a show as I had to, I was going to budge and break down as I often felt like it, but I had to fight, he’s won already, but I was prepared to let him have it all.
Me and the sociopath went outside, he began abusing me, subtly bringing things up about my ex without mentioning her name, but I knew what he was doing, so i opened fire, i told him of a recent ex i was with, he knew her as well as he never expected me to go out with her, as my ex was jealous of her. I told him that was always going to happen, knowing full well he destroyed my relationship with my ex, but i wanted to see his face, it was filled with rage!
While alone with him, I asked him “when and where is the funeral?” He was stunned, he hesitated as if to say why are you coming?
I wanted to go to the funeral as I knew my ex would be there, I wanted to say one last goodbye, I wanted to expose the sociopath!
RED FLAG 13: Funeral Day
I went to the funeral, so did my parents only they came to church after me and were seated somewhere else. I was seated in the back, I see the ex seated a few rows to the left in front me, she looks good, the boyfriend has turned from a toothpick from an over enduced steroid freak, because there is no way in hell you can become that big in 1 year. I have a solid build with muscles but I don’t look like arnold schwarzenegger, nor do I want to look like him.
The boyfriend sees me (I got the double look) which told me he was surprised to see me there, my ex hasn’t seen me yet. I noticed he wispered something in her ear after he saw me. hmmmm?
It was time to take communion, I observe the boyfriend decided to take his communion, 20 people after him she decides to take her communion. Why didn’t they take it together, why the act? what has the sociopath told them? I decided to take mine, and walked straight passed them, I am not going to run, never will never have.
After mass I said goodbye to everyone I knew except for the sociopath and his wife, only to notice my starring at me for a good period of time, I never looked at her, I couldn’t even look her in the eyes anymore after all that had happened.
There were a lot of people, the sociopaths mother was a lovely lady, she had a good heart and a lot of friends.
I finally spot my own parents and asked my mother I want to say goodbye to the sociopath have you seen him? She said he’s over there with his wife talking to your ex and her boyfriend. I start walking over towards them, my ex and the boyfriend split, just like New Years and I say my goodbye to his wife and as was about to shake the sociopath’s hand, he was about to pull the same stunt he pulled at New Years, only to realise my parents were watching this time. I shake his hand for the very last time……………….
Went home, asked my mother if she noticed my ex’s behaviour. My mother was seated further back from me in Church and had observed what i observed, it was the proof I needed to convince my mother and father that the friend who came over and harassed my brother at work was indeed a full blown SOCIOPATH!
Apologies for the long story, but I had to write everything down, and I’ve probably missed a few things.
Moral of the story, be yourself!
Did I lose? Yes
Point being never lose sight of who you are, i feel everybodys pain. My case may have not be as bad as other people’s even though I put myself through the grinder, but I never stopped fighting! My aim was to burn out the sociopath.
Why? I dont know! I took a beating, but something in me tells me to keep fighting, help the wife, and her family
I dont want my ex back either, Im happy with my love. i have a good job and I’m honestly happy, but something is telling me to help the others.
I want to actually go back in to the lions den, he wanted to destroy me and failed, as I’m still breathing should I be dead?
Thanks for reading. I am happy to answer questions if they aren’t clear.
January 3rd, 2012 at 11:16
InfectedPsy,
I actually read the entire comment … it reads like one long sentence. I have no questions, nor do I have answers. I did get confused over the number of ex’s, but please do not bother trying to explain. I got the gist of it. I just don’t know why you wouldn’t just move to Italy.
April 4th, 2012 at 13:06
Hi there,
Im getting out of a 4 year off an on relationship with a man who is a sociopath. Ive been hurt so bad. No matter the hurt and pain he’s caused me, I still miss him dearly.
I broke up with him, an moved to a different state even. I failed myself by already visiting him twice an each time coming back I feel horrible and almost more affected emotionally drained from the experiences. I again told him it was over… How do I continue with this decision? Will the pain an linging to be with him fade as any other failed relationship…. Or has the damage an pain he caused take longer? Its been 4 days, and in my soul I know the stuff I went through wasn’t caused by who I am … but what do I need to do in order to snap it in my brain to move on an not think of him an miss us? So hurt an confused.
April 5th, 2012 at 15:41
Christina,
This sounds like a self-esteem problem, imo. After years with a sociopath and who knows what childhood experiences came before that for you, it’s understandable that it could be low. When you think you deserve better, I think you will naturally let go of him and possibly look back with revulsion.
April 22nd, 2012 at 20:04
Christina, I want to share with you some things that happened with me, as my situation is very similar to yours.
one of the red flags of a spath is that the first thing they say to you is usually something very breathtaking and reels you in. this is part of the fantasy, that was never real in the first place.
when they disappear and come back, they bring up the fantasy. my wife would always say “i’m exhausted and i just want a quiet, peaceful life” when i let her come back. what she was really saying was “i need a place to flop while I scheme my next move”
my wife promised me the world and other specific promises. she never had any intentions of fulfilling them, she just said what she had to say.
one way you can work through this is to picture a life of empty bank accounts, fradulent credit cards, identity theft and most of your high valued possessions gone. there may also be a lot of legal costs with lawyers down the road. these things are a very high probability. spaths are like aliens in the movies, they move from planet to planet using up all resources.
the longer you are away from him, the better time to get back to balance and let common sense take over.
when i think about some of the missteps i did with my wife, i always go back to boundarys. i have boundarys and i allowed myself to go beyond them at the cost of logic and common sense.
I hope this is helpful.
April 26th, 2012 at 00:47
I married a psychopath when I was 20 years old. During this time I was mostly studying and many of his doings went unnoticed. This man has the best of a 24 year collection of my strengths and weaknesses. I had an awakening when I turned 40, because, what is missing here in most of the posts is us, the co-sociopaths (excuse the term, I lack a better description). With everybody, my parents included under his magic spell I realized that the only way to change would be to start with myself.
My children were 7 and 10 years old respectively. I planned my escape and after withdrawing a divorce twice after he threatened to kill everybody starting with me, my parents and half the street we live in, I took my kids and went away for the weekend and asked his friend to put him up somewhere. Even paid a huge amount (I was working hard as a doctor and he quit his job and lived off me).
He one day stopped at my house and told me “I will still get the kids!” And he did. Many years later, after taking the kids to school and back daily. Being the good daddy and always inquiring about my personal business he managed to turn them into his little followers. So, when my teenage son asked me to go and live with his dad, I complied. I took both kids there to live with him. My daughter loves her brother.
I am devastated, even almost 2 years down the line.
I miss my kids, but mostly, I am so afraid that they turn out to be just like him. I thought he would know less about me, my children would get new insights into his way of doing, maybe see him for the person he is. Unfortunately I paid maintenance, more than he paid me. Now he and his new wife (my children`s grade 1 teacher) is living off that quite comfortably and the kids come with requests such as mommy we need clothes for school and mommy, I need contact lense fluid…
This man can do whatever he wants, I couldn`t care. I will not be manipulated by him. It took years of therapy before I could answer him with a monotone “oh” or “hmm” because I have become like a wet bar of soap. Whenever someone like him tries to squeeze me, I pop out. Problem is I know he will use me, my good (or bad) reputation, my money and my children as long as he sees fit.
What can I do to get my children back? One wonders… Yes, evil exists, but so does good. Should I leave them to be brainwashed? Were talking about someone who teaches his children that black people are animals, without a soul. Who goes to church on Sunday when others go on Sunday. Who knows the Bible almost by heart. And has a verse for every occasion.
I did, I think, in his mind “win” him once by divorcing him and getting custody of the kids and he will not rest until he has firstly used and then destroyed me. The fly in his ointment because I choose to live a good, sober, logic, happy life and do not give any psycho permission to take that away from me.
Unfortunately for him I think I have got the closest you could to beating a psychopath. I learnt behaviour from a master psycho. Keep to yourself, go along with his current plan whilst planning an excellent strategy to hit hard and back off. Give them rope… And when you hit it must be out of nowhere and such hard blow that he does not have the resources to fight back. And the best scenario would be to get away from them as far as possible.
But, I have kids with this man. So, what would you do? How do you go about winning the kids back (my son says he wants to come back, but is afraid…he still hopes his dad will love him some day). My daughter loves me, but he sickens me with the sms`s he sends her. “Without your chocolate kisses I am nothing”, “You are MY little princess”, “Daddy`s little girl, you are my everything” etc.
I don`t check her phone, but we went away on a trip and he had to send her messages on my phone. Deleting them made me sick. The very thing that made me fall in love with him in the first place, how ironic.
What was my question again, oh yes, do I just look at the bigger picture, ignore my maternal instincts and live my life or fight back and get my kids where they are treated fairly and equally? In my opinion favoring one child over the other and comparing their grades is a form of abuse. They are 16 (boy) and 13 (girl) respectively.
How?
April 26th, 2012 at 11:21
Hi Larry,
I stumbled upon this blog and found it incredibly comforting (how weird is that?). I have been seeking to become better informed about Sociopathic behavior. My ex-husband embodies so many of the descriptions of the Sociopath . I am numb as I write. Normally, I am simply too pained to call to mind and put into words all of the tragic and deeply painful wreckage this man has left in his wake, but upon reading some of these posts, I feel relief as I write.
I am a believer in taking responsibility for one’s own actions – good, bad or ugly. I, however, have learned much over the years. One important thing is that I tend to draw “Controlling” and manipulative people into my life. Overall, I don’t believe that is such a bad thing, with the exception of my ex-husband. He is 10 years my senior and I met him just after my 22nd Birthday. I was considered to be very attractive (although the years have added more lines than I would like – oh well!) I have always been a “peace-maker” with a Pollyanish desire for everyone to get along. Silly – I know, and very naive. I allowed this man into my life. Little did I know after 20 years, I would be reduced to simply trying to survive for the sole purpose of protecting my children from becoming his prey. He brought upon my family so much devastation and there were days and nights I didn’t know if I could physically and emotionally survive.
Our situation was so dire, that we received death threats from an avowed terrorist, who had entered into one of the many business “deals” my ex entered into. These “deals” always involved my ex borrowing money, asking for investments and then leaving the investor or lender holding the bag and moving on to the next “deal”. He could manipulate anyone. His famous line to me in private was: “Just let me get in front of them for 10 minutes and I’ll have them eating out of my hand.”
I lost all respect for this man, and my resentment for his callous disregard for the people he used and discarded – was more than I could bare. He went through 17 jobs in 3 years – hated to be held accountable for anything, we moved 5 times in 4 years. We went from having a country club lifestyle with Yacht club membership and boat to a very modest lifestyle. Here’s the thing: I DIDN’T CARE about all the “stuff”. I grew up in a family with 8 children and we all worked together for the betterment of the family. I begged him to just keep a “normal” job and we could start again, re-build like “normal” people. I found employment and tried to convince him we could re-build our little family and life. But he didn’t listen and he didn’t care what I had to say. He wanted to live the life he had grown up with (entitled, spoiled and very wealthy).
Finally, after another late night visit by terrorist thugs while I was alone with my children – (my ex was in Vegas getting lap-dances I later learned), I made the painful and scary decision to leave him. We went through a terrible divorce and subsequent battles in court. Throughout the battles, his entire focus was on me -the complete destruction of me – as a mother, as a wife, socially, personally, etc. I was granted the ability to move to another state after a horrific battle.
I was truly shocked, after so many years of being with this man – that he was successfull in getting people to do battle for him. He is fun to be with and makes everyone around him want to be around him. He can get anyone to do anything for him. Despite being found guilty of fraud, numerous lawsuits, IRS liens, bounced checks, he put forth this persona that was a lie. But he gets away with it.
After several years, I am sad to write that this man has given his “poison pill” to our eldest beautiful daughter (inside and out). She has suddenly left our home with only 6 weeks of High School (she is 12th grade and 18 years of age- excellent student). He and his vindictive wife have campaigned against me for the past 4 years and in the 11th hour, my daughter is in their clutches. She will be in college in the Fall and I pray for her stability. She will not go through a high school graduation – she has earned more than enough credits and can graduate early. I am devastated but can only pray that he does not take hold in her innocence and naivety. She simply didn’t show up on her flight home.
I apologize for being lengthy. I have not scratched the surface of this man’s deception and destruction. I feel often that I am simply going through motions to stay strong for my remaining teenager and younger son. I am glad I’ve found your blog.
Thank you for your insight and straight-forward approach to Sociopathic behavior.
April 26th, 2012 at 13:41
Tanya,
I’m confused a bit. Were you awarded full legal and physical custody? If so, ho old were you kids when you let them move in with their dad. At least in my state of residence, the age they can make that decision is 14, and that’s only if the wanting parent is deemed safe.
I am not sure what to say since I don’t know the age of your son when you let him leave. If he was underage, the court may say you abandoned him … I just don’t know.
I believe the most important task you need to do right now is get an attorney so you can get both of them back. Psychopathy is hereditary, so if your ex really has AsPD, your kids are at risk, and there’s no treatment. I Do not believe your son will be brainwashed if he already says he wants to come back. I’m not trained in these area so all I can give you is an opinion. Get the cops involved now, along with you county’s Department of Family and Children Services. You may also benefit from an experienced therapist on the subject.
But you need to save your kids. Don’t wate any time.
Good luck.
April 26th, 2012 at 14:21
Tam,
Please read as much as you can from this site, including the stories that people have left. There are over 600 comments covering many issues on this complex disorder.
I hate to be the one to bear bad news, but your oldest daughter may not be brainwashed. Antisocial Personality Disorder (AsPD or APD), what is commonly referred to as a psychopath of sociopath, is a genetic brain disorder that is present at birth. You can say it lies dormant until the infected person reaches their teens. Then it takes hold without warning.
I have three adult children, two of whom will not speak with me for reasons that are probably beyond my understanding, as well as being other than they are sick. My third child speaks with me on an irregular basis, but it is certainly not the type of relationship I hoped for with my adult children. I think he struggles with it, and if I hadn’t given him a solid upbringing, he way have well turned out just like his sisters.
But then again, his sisters received that same solid upbringing. I witnessed both of my daughter’s changes, and other than not overreacting, there’s not much one can do. Don’t get me wrong, as there are children of psychopaths where the ‘bad gene’ seems to lie dormant their entire life. I am proof of that.
The very common response to your inquiry is not an easy one, especially with children. Get the psychopath out of your life. Do your best to get your kids back. If your attorney can make a case tat your ex needs a psychological evaluation, you may be able to get supervised visitation when the kids are with him. It would be hard to do them any damage when someone is there who would report it back to the court, with the potential outcome that he would even lose visitation. These are just opinions based on what you’ve said.
Read an add more comments. Visitors of this site often chime in with some of there own similar stories that may help open you eyes in other directions.
I wish you the best. We’re not going anywhere.
April 26th, 2012 at 15:13
Thank you for your comments Larry. I didn’t go into more detail earlier for fear of being ridicoulously lengthy. I’m deeply disturbed about the hereditary element you mentioned. My oldest daughter (Senior in High School – 18 years of age), who recently did not come home from Spring Break and stayed with her dad, has always had my demeanor and personality. She’s a giver and tends to attract controlling types. I hope to God she has not inherited her father’s psychotic gene. My other two – still reside with me – one daughter in her teen “hates” her father for taking away her sister, and son who doesn’t feel close to his dad at all. I’ll continue to research and find new material on this horrible disorder. Are there tests to determine if someone is a Sociopath?
April 27th, 2012 at 03:36
I am due to go to court next month against the sociopathic ex-employer and have just resigned with no notice from my job with the newer sociopathic employer. I’m just thinking: how the hell do you avoid sociopathic bosses?! I’ve been fooled twice in the space of 13 months and my family, health, wealth and psychological well-being have all been very badly effected. The trouble seems to be that the interview situation seems to be a classic place where a sociopath can shine. I need to interview with people again and I’m wondering if anyone has tips for recognising these people in the professional environment? What should you look for, listen for, ask questions about that would help identify this kind of person before you’ve signed a contract and it’s too late?! Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.
April 27th, 2012 at 14:22
Tam
First, just one correction: psychosis (i.e., psychotic) and psychopathy (i.e., psychopaths) are not related. They are two entirely different disorders. “Psychosis is given to the more severe forms of psychiatric disorder, during which hallucinations and delusions and impaired insight may occur.”*
Besides that, I hope your two younger ones stick with you, and your oldest comes back. There are tests for AsPD, APD and NPD, but generally not given to the general public. The test does not predict the likelihood of the disorder, but only if it exists and the severity. I have assembled more information about the traits and test at http://country-of-liars.com/about/traits/ .
Hang in there.
*Wikipedia
April 27th, 2012 at 14:30
Maria,
I can’t really answer your question with a definitive answer. I, myself, have worked for at least three psychopaths, one that was so incredibly blatant, I intend to write an entire post on her actions. You are correct, an interview is not enough time to determine anything. I would say that educating yourself more about psychopathy, so you can put it to work for you, it at least may not take as long to identify one.
IMHO, your best option if you determine you are working for a psychopath is to start another job search. Sad, but they have the upper hand and can ruin your reputation. Read your contracts carefully. I wish I could help you more.
April 27th, 2012 at 14:55
Thanks Larry, your understanding is helpful in itself! I think I do need to read up on psychopathy as after these experiences I’ve lost quite a degree of trust in my radar about other people. On reflection I felt uncomfortable/intuitive alarm bells in both interview situations with both these women bosses, but I over-rode my misgivings because they didn’t seem based on anything rational enough and I guess I needed the jobs…or rather I thought I did. I suppose the lesson is to go with my gut next time, and remember that you need a sociopath in your life like you need a hole in the head! Better to be poor and sane/healthy than driven crazy with the stress of proximity to psychopathology. By the way I ditched my job just two days ago and left with no notice period – something I’ve never done in 25 years of working. I carried on there 5 months longer than was good for me for the sake of my five year old son. I think we’ll be ok though and I’m just going to do part-time work until I can recover my health. I hope you do write up about your experience with your obviously sociopathic boss Larry, when you have the time!
May 27th, 2012 at 12:13
Hi Larry, thank you for responding to my email. I have been on your site practically all weekend. It’s so interesting to learn about these fake people. Thank you for educating me. It’s been 3 weeks and I have not heard from my SP after sending him an email letting him know that I was onto him and that I now realize he is a SP. I’ve done so much research lately that I discovered a common phrase they use is “I like who you are.”. He used to say that to me all the time while getting to know me. I don’t think he will come back or cause me any harm for fear of me exposing him to the one person …an ex-girlfriend who has been in his life for 5 years. If it weren’t for this woman, his livelihood would be destroyed as my SP has his own business and this woman refers 80% of her customers to him. He is very good to her although she does not want a relationship with him. She is much older and enjoys her freedom. He can’t stand the fact that she’s not interested in him. Anyway, he remains friends with her. He would not want me telling her that he was sleeping with me while still with her and exposing him for what he really is. He would have to shut down his business if I did this. I feel he needs this patprticular woman to feel “normal”. He used to cheat on her but he always went back to her. I think she used him for sex but never saw the relationship going anywhere.
I also read that SPs are cruel to dogs. My SP seems to adore them. Are there some that love dogs? It seemed he was fascinated by them?
Larry, I know I am so much better without this man in my life, but I miss his intellect, the way he communicated with me and made me feel desirable and happy …the things that were lacking in my marriage. I know it was all fake now, but i do miss the person that he was. It was too good to be true. I still don’t feel that I have closure, but I hope in time, I could accept this. I am moving on but I still think of him and the good times. I still can’t believe it was all a lie and that once I left my husband, he distanced himself from me and was already involved with someone else.
I’m glad I sent him the email letting him know I had discovered that he was a SP and I wished him good luck. I told him that I liked the person he pretended to be, but once his mask came off and I saw him for who he really is, he frightened me. He used to tell me he felt like a “lost soul”. Now I understand. Thanks again Larry for educating me and helping me with your insight.
May 27th, 2012 at 12:40
Julie,
A thick tangle of webs. I don’t know how they keep everything straight.
I specifically wanted to address your dog comment. Without revisiting the entire post here, here’s the link: country-of-liars.com/3641/whos-not-a-sociopath/
I saw what I thought was the same thing myself, but it was all part of the ruse. They want to appear “normal” so that’s the proverbial house with a picket fence, their place of worship, 2-5 kids and the family dog. But they relate to the dog no more than to their kids.
May 29th, 2012 at 12:38
Hi Larry, this site is great. I am learning so much about Sociopaths. I just broke up with one. She was evil. I would like to expose her to her friends or at least tell them to watch out for her without labelling her a “sociopath”. But now that I’ve read your article, perhaps it’s a bad idea. I’m very tempted.
July 15th, 2012 at 13:47
Hi,
I am new to your website and blog – and delighted to find it. Thank you or all of the contributions you are making to help others better understand sociopaths.
Can you point me to a few articles or blog entries that you or others have written that discuss the broader effects that a sociopath can have on a family? Specifically, a woman has targeted my brother-in-law and our entire family is at a loss for how to handle the situation.
Specifically, this woman (whom I will call Tammy) met my brother-in-law (whom I will call Dean) when she was a visitor in his home with another man. Dean was living with his common law wife of 10 years (whom I will call Evie). Dean and Evie graciously hosted Tammy and her boyfriend-of-the-moment in both their home and around town for a weekend. After leaving, Tammy began sexting Dean and ultimately seduced him into getting rid of Evie…who happened to be just about the sweetest woman you could ever know.
After Tammy’s first visit with her then boyfriend, she returned a few month later for a weekend from 2,500 miles away (by airplane) and never left, leaving behind a baby boy, two daughters and a 21 year old son that she when she was 15 years old. (in total, she had four children with three men at the time, but Dean was not told about them during the initial seduction phase). Within three weeks, she had moved her four children into his home and then, within a year, had her fifth child with Dean. By the way, she arrived on Dean’s doorstep without any possessions except for a few carry-on bags for herself and her children. She had us all pitying her even though we knew she had destroyed the relationship between Dean and Evie (whom we all loved). We loaned her furniture, toys, and other items to ease her transition (she painted all the furniture without asking, ruining it for resale value, and didn’t give a hoot when questioned about it).
Anyhow, when she met Dean, a successful degreed professional, she had led him to believe that she was single, available, “wealthy”, and, “connected” to notable sports figures and doctors. Actually, she was newly divorced with a 3-month baby plus three other children fathered by two other men. Then, through research, we discovered that her “wealth” was from a one-time $5,000 cash paternity settlement…that’s it…just $5,000 and acting like she had a million! Her “connections” were at very low levels, with the “doctor” actually a chiropractor who had his license permanently revoked for malpractice.
She also claimed to have graduated from various schools and to have held several occupations of her own…all lies. In actuality, she had spent the previous seven years (or more) defending herself nearly full-time in court against debt collectors and men who had fathered her children (Dean is unaware of her legal or true academic or professional history…it was found though investigation). It should also be noted that she received government benefits to support her children and had no alimony/means of support from any source other than my brother-in-law.
Somehow, among other things including the purchase of a business by Dean for her, she got Dean to sign her up for a club membership as his “wife” even though they were not married. In that way, they both scammed the club and other members for the past few years. Our family are also members of the same club and we have been forced to bite our truthful tongues. Tammy also began telling lies about us to other members of the club. Also, through “her” (actually Dean’s) business, she has the opportunity to form relationships with even more people to whom she is spreading vicious lies. We have remained as neutral as possible, but now we are like two camps divided and the situation could not be more uncomfortable.
We must see this person on a regular basis and observe her making “friendships” through her conniving and manipulative ways. So innocent are her targets that it makes me wince at thought of the damage she might be doing to us now, and potentially later to others.
In summary, she is social-climbing her way though our beautiful, unsuspecting small town that is blindly welcoming her into their comfortable folds. Sure, we can ignore her…but the problem does not go away as people often ask me/us what our relationship is with this seemingly “fun” new person in their midst…when she is a complete and utter fraud…and I am left speechless because I don’t know what to say that won’t make me look like the suspicious one.
It seems as if I should develop some way of warning people about her, or at least to help others ask the right questions so that they can figure things out on their own. Do you have any recommendations, articles or blog entries that might give me some wisdom? I have already tried to get ideas from both my personal and family therapists but I have yet to gain the tools that I feel I need to protect myself…and to try to help others protect themselves. By the way, the research that we have done on her has not been shared with Dean…for him, love is truly blind, or so we think.
Thanks for “listening” and I hope there might be some answers out there somewhere.
p.s. this only contains one aspect of the damage she has done to our family…there are plenty of other situations that I did not go into in the interest of brevity.
July 15th, 2012 at 15:04
@Oona
Thanks and welome to the site.
There are answers throughout this site, written by both me and comments written by visitors. Every victim is in a unique place, but we all share similar outcomes. You described your situation very clearly, and as most of us, it’s quite complex and often involves many other people.
All I can say to help you acquire answers is to read, and read a lot. This site is a great place to start. As of today, they are over 900 comments from individuals like yourself — people who have similar experiences. And as you read, pieces of the puzzle will begin to fit into place, often with eye-opening revelations. Some of the comments submitted to this site have helped me see things that I never thought of. I’m sure it will do the same for you.
August 5th, 2012 at 15:05
Hi Larry,
I hope you can shed some insight for me with your experience.
I believe, I was married to a sociopath for 51/2 months after dating him for 3 mos. I am using “I believe” intentionally because I am not sure, if he is a sociopath or not. He is a pathological liar. In the early part of our marriage – I was traveling on business a lot. He cheated on me with one of my girlfriend while I was traveling. He never admitted to this. I sensed it but, he never admitted. Instead he tells me to have a girls night out and he joins us.
I believe, my girlfriend was/is a sociopath too. Debbie is from Russia. She came here as a mail order bride. Married an architect. She divorced an architect as soon as she received a greencard. In meanwhile, she was cheating on him with 2 other guys while being married.
Since, then she has been manipulating married men from her work to have an affair with her. She will start out by having an innocent lunch. Then dinner. Then having them take her out to various places. All the while, these married men are paying for her entertainment, fun, dinners, drinks etc….Married men either found her attractive or thought she is an EASY lay.
Eventually, her demands would go up and ask men to buy her jewelry, clothes etc. Then weekend getaways. Then if they wanted to exclusively date her she required $80/week in allowance in addition to dinners, drinks, jewelry. To be a kept woman. Until men realized what she was doing or ran out of money. Then they dropped her like a hot potato and she moves on to her next victim.
I was naiive…. Yes, naiive.
While I was traveling on business, my husband somehow manipulated her into coming over to our place literally 100 miles away. She comes over, she sees our beautiful house, his job, his position and she sleeps with him very 1st time after she met him. Mind you, this is all going on without my knowledge while i am out of state on a business.
Now, my husband gets laid off from his long-term employment. He had a very stable job and a good position.
Long story short….Now, I am working locally. I suspect something is not right about my new marriage. something is not right about my husband. Something is a “MISS”. Something is “OFF”.
I am the wage earner in my house. My husband is out of a job. My husband is having Debbie come over during the day while I am at work. My husband gets very creative. He gets a pre-paid cell phone, and 4 new credit cards to support Debbie’s demands/expectations.
In meanwhile, I am telling my female friends including Debbie about my husband’s bizarre behavior. They all seem to come up with excuses. Until, i finally decided to trust myself and my instincts.
I have filed for a divorce. My soon to be ex and Debbie are now a couple. They “seem to be” happy. May be it’s a case of pig found his pigsty.
QUESTIONS– Larry, I think my ex-husband is a sociopath. He manipulated ex-employer in soooo many ways. He is a liar, no remorse, no guilt, has a substance abuse problem, he is a con artist.
Do you also think Debbie is a sociopath? She shows the classic signs never apologized for sleeping with him, no guilt/remorse, uses married men.
2. Have you seen – Do 2 sociopaths end up attracting one another? How does that relationship pan out?
3. Which one my ex-husband or Debbie is the worst culprit?
Thank you so much for your insight and help. Very very appreciative to have come across your website.
August 5th, 2012 at 17:02
Candle,
1. She could be just a gullible disciple, and when she discovers who she’s dealing with, he’ll leave her.
2. Sociopath’s do attract each other. The can easily become a team. If my experience, there is one alpha in that team.
3. Your ex-husband.
August 5th, 2012 at 17:17
Thank you! This helps.
August 6th, 2012 at 21:45
Hi Larry,
I just spent another 2 hours on your website learning about sociopaths.
My soon to be Ex-husband (sociopath) and I met 1.5yrs. ago originally in 2010. I smelled something WAS NOT right about him then. We broke up. I dumped him. I broke up because things did NOT feel right.
I contacted him again in 2011 because I had lost my job and he works in the same industry as I do. Reached out as a network contact. This time he wooed me again. He wanted to pick up our relationship back where we had it left off.
Pretty soon, he asked me to move in with him (in 3 wks). Shortly there after that we got engaged in less than 3 mos. Right there! was the mistake of a lifetime on my part.
He had met one of my girlfriend before the engagement. He did change a bit after he met my girlfriend. His intense pursuit became less intense.
At this point, I had started to travel on business. We get married.
As soon as, we got married he turned into a monster. Within a week. Less than 10 days. He did a 180 degrees. He acted like he did not even like me. No sex, He became very antagonistic. Started playing mind games, and became very controlling.
I asked for an annulment in 10 days. He took me to change my name to SS and Driver’s Lic office right away. He became controlling to the point of holding me hostage. I was only allowed to go to work and that too was because he was laid-off and did not have a job. No income.
He would monitor my phone calls and was not allowed any friends or family interaction. Such a bizarre behavior.
Larry –
Question#1… Is this normal behavior of a sociopath? Or it was because he already had a mistress?
Question#2… Two of my girlfriends have become his disciples. I can not believe – what possibly he could have said to them? or are they his disciples because of their women/female jealousy? Jealousy because one of their girlfriend got married and abandoned them.
I am trying to make sense – out of senseless events, hurtful acts of the people who claimed to LOVE me. Callous people with no remorse or empathy..
Thanks for your input.
August 7th, 2012 at 06:29
Candle,
I don’t believe that all sociopath act the same, so I can’t say it’s normal behavior. But what you describe includes many traits of a sociopath. I wouldn’t even wager a bet on his extracurricular activities.
Disciples are very weak and shallow individuals, especially if they were your friends, and now they’ve gone to his side.
August 7th, 2012 at 17:12
Hi Larry,
I have written to you before about my ex-best friend of ten years that turned out to be a sociopath. Thank you for your advice.
I have separated myself and am going strong for over two years now with them not in my life. On the other hand, I know I need to continue to be strong and distance myself from the fake vasade of what I thought was a friend. It is sickening that now all my old group of friends still hang out with the sociopath and they keep it from me even though I warned them about the sociopath and exposed them.
You are correct when you say that they are shallow and are only involved in “shallow” activities. I do not feel like their friendships are genuine or loving. All they do is drink and party. It does make me sad that they would rather hang out with a criminal than me. Even when I told them that this person was arrested for a felony– stealing a large sum of money from their workplace. They still gave her another chance even though she is a huge liar by presenting it as a misdemenor and that I was a terrible person for not being their friend anymore.
It was the last straw for me and it unveiled the true colors that I feel I knew all along but ignored it since I like to see the good in people. It just makes me sick that these “friends” of mine and yes I put in quotations are just shallow and not in it for true genuine human relationships. That they believe a consistant liar over someone successful due to merit and a good reputation. I am sure that she spreads lies and it is just weird that they would believe them since this person is classless, not educated, successful in work or relationships. I guess they will continue to lie to themselves like I did for so many years and fall for her charm.
I feel like I can not trust new friendships like I used to and I always watch my back waiting for a knife to stab it…
August 7th, 2012 at 17:39
I think most victims learn a huge lesson at some point and realize that there’s a lot of people who exhibit the traits. Relationships are especially suspect unless you’ve known the person for a long time, and even then, some people will get sucked back in. One must keep a constant vigil.
Dogs … the best companion one can have. I’ve got two. They are the only animal that will love their owner more than they love themselves. Dogs are not a substitute for a relationship, of course, but they are great companions when humans are not.
October 10th, 2012 at 16:31
Larry,
I just read this post today for the first time. Once again, you nail the psychopathy experience right on the head. They are relentless, remorseless, and ruthless.
I may have mentioned that I was going to Court on the 28th and asked the Court for a Guardian Ad Litem for my children, after 4 years of approximately 40 hearings, and me going to jail 4 times.
Well my ex-wife’s attorney, who literally wrote the book on Family Law in my state argued NOT to appoint one in our extraordinarily ‘high conflict’ case. Keep in mind that it is standard and customary practice to appoint one in these kinds of cases and he understands this as well as anyone.
My ex-wife and her attorney want to keep out of Court anyone and anything that can verify the patterns of behavior. A GAL has the authority to talk to doctors and look at all the evidence available to determine the best interests of the Children.
Your post about what you DON’T know is spot on. Even when people know, they don’t always recognize the patterns of behavior. When they do, its often easier to walk the other way.
Ethics and Principles are the only safeguard against psychopaths.
Keep up the good work.
October 10th, 2012 at 17:30
Madmacks,
The court appointed a Guardian Ad Litem for my daughter. I don’t understand why a judge would believe that there is no need for one. Who speaks for the child?
And why did you end up in jail four times? I must add that a courtroom is unlike any other room anywhere. The judge has virtually unlimited authority to do whatever s/he wants.
It’s frightening. The judge that almost sent me to jail for not sitting down fast enough lectured me on family values and his two grown daughters.
Less than two years later, he resigned in disgrace after being caught in a car one evening banging a court-appointed defense attorney. It was reported that he heard over 225 cases with her involved.
Within a week, the prosecutor reported that they were not going to re-hear any of the cases since they were deemed valid. Avoid courtrooms whenever possible, and never let your ire show.
Thanks.
October 12th, 2012 at 11:29
I went to Court again and to ask the Court for an Emergency Petition for a Guardian Ad Litem and to reinstate visitation after two years of no contact with my children.
My petition was denied again because it is not an emergency. The Court is now doing everything it can to prevent a third party from entering the case.
The Judge in my case ignored HUGE red flags for psychopathy or a ‘high conflict’ personality, including domestic violence, and emotional abuse of my children. That Judge recused himself and now they won’t appoint a GAL for my children.
I was put in Jail 4 times because of non-payment of child support. My ex-wife harassed and subpoenaed my employer until I was fired and then they rushed into Court to have me held in contempt for not paying child support.
My ex-wife has spent over $1 Million in legal fees to keep me from my children. During our divorce she asked for all the assets and got them. I got nothing. She asked for NO visitation and got it. Not because of any alleged abuse of my children, but because according to the Judge that recused himself, I ‘can not follow the orders of the Court.’
There were never any allegations of sexual, drug or physical abuse and I was never found to be an unfit parent.
From what I can tell, the Judges and the Court knows that they were fooled and are now trying to cover it up by preventing any third party involvement. Keep in mind, I have not had ANY contact with my 7 year old son and 10 year old daughter in over 2 years.
There is a Conspiracy of silence going on in the Fairfax Circuit Court. This is an enormous injustice and I’m not sure what to do about it.
October 12th, 2012 at 14:20
Madmacks,
Maybe you can get alot of us together who have been combating the injustice that we have all received while we are battling our psychopaths in court and make a real difference. Maybe numbers of complaints and noticed patterns of injustice can help all of us win the battle for our children !!
October 12th, 2012 at 18:07
Hi Larry,
Here is a KARMIC payback – you don’t see it happen. My Ex-H’s mistress left him and found someone better. More wealthier and smarter than this sociopath. She was one of his disciple.
Isn’t that a hoot?
Thought… I share with people on this site…Have hope and faith. Goods in this universe, KARMA, Angels who help even out the score on our behalf. Leave it to Higher power, GOD and supreme to fight evil and battles on your behalf.
October 13th, 2012 at 11:23
Hi, I am so glad to have found this site. Thank you for enlightening me.
I believe my ex is a Narcissist/SP. I know she was abused by her father as a child and her mom left him when my ex was 15 years old which could explain why she is the way she is. Liar, cheater, manipulator. I’ve exposed her and now she’s determined to bring me down.
The first thing she did was call tthe company i work for and complained about me to HR. She told them I was harassing her during company time. I was called down to HR and spoken to about the complaint. I explained my situation to the HR rep. He knows me well because I’ve worked there for 12 years and have never had anyone complain about me before. I think he understood. He looked more embarrassed than I felt. Can’t believe she would do this.
She also made up some other lies to which the HR rep explained were personal issues which she has to speak to me about. I can’t believe she actually did this. I’m sure she was hoping I’d react with anger but instead I told her that she did not ruin my reputation at work because I am well respected by all.
I told her I thought it was very sad that she had to stoop to that level but that I understood all about narcs and “character assassinations”. I also told her that I felt sorry for her because I have done my research and understand now that she is a tortured soul. I’m totally done with her. Still can’t believe she would call my office hoping I’d lose my job.
Wicked. Well haha, it didn’t work.
October 14th, 2012 at 03:24
Anonymous,
I’m glad my site was able to help enlighten you on psychopathy. Not everyone is as lucky as you when the predator attacks. Continued good luck.
March 25th, 2013 at 13:49
What you have said actually jars with so much of my own experience. I know I have been under attack and that it is most likely a sociopath, just by reading what you have to say.
Your words allow me to make sense of what happened to me.
I know I will probably never be able to bring this person to justice and yes, it all happened just as you described.
I may have well have written them myself but thank you for doing writing them. Someone out there understands and that is a great comfort.
March 25th, 2013 at 14:00
Susan,
Their traits are all very typical, yet charming. I’m glad you found this site. Please don’t be a stranger as more information is added weekly, if not daily. The more knowledge you garner, the more powerful you will become. Subscribe so that you do not miss anything. You can subscribe to the posts, the comments, or both.
I wish you the best
April 9th, 2013 at 04:12
Larry,
First, thanks for this site. It has been very enlightening. I wasn’t even aware of what I was truly dealing with until I found it over a year ago.
Sometimes you can’t run. If I run I have to leave my youngest child behind (early teens). My youngest has been alienated from me and is a disciple of my ex-s/o. I would never marry my “ex” or fulfill her ambitions. She watched forensic crime shows all of the time. I knew if I married her, she’d be taking out an insurance policy on me with her as the beneficiary. I was trapped by the love of our kids and she would not let me leave so I had to wait her out and observe her as she promiscuously found a new host. After nearly 2 decades of letting her think she was outsmarting me, I thought it would never happen. In cougar fashion, she finally found a new younger host (6-7 years). Poor sap doesn’t have a clue just as I didn’t. He is now a disciple himself so I couldn’t help him if I tried.
We are in a custody battle now, over my youngest child. Right now my youngest is a disciple/minion. If I don’t get custody of my youngest, the child will become the mother. The mother is what some call a high functioning narcissist because she holds a fairly “lofty” position with an international retail corporation. Legal professionals and therapists don’t seem to have a fckn clue so I’m fighting a losing battle. They think she is normal because she has held her current position for a decade. She would quit tomorrow if she could marry wealth and be a “kept woman”. They have no idea of the evil within. Because of her position, she has something to lose so I believe she hasn’t yet pulled out her full arsenal of lies.
Plus, though she has severed relations with them, our two middle kids insulate me from bogus allegations. Because of the custody battle I can’t go into further detail at this time. Many say I should just abandon my child to be raised by the wolf. Cut my losses and be thankful for my 2 kids that I was able to save. I haven’t given you much to go on, but do you think I should abandon my youngest behind and just hope for the best? The child initiated the custody battle and has since been alienated, brainwashed and materially spoiled into backing off the child’s own request. My youngest is right at the age where sociopathy sets in and the child is in full survival/ Stockholm Syndrome mode. If I walk away from my youngest I feel as though I am abandoning my child that once cried for help.
April 9th, 2013 at 05:00
Not without my child,
I wish I could give you some advice, but I have little to give. I have three adult children, and when my youngest was 14, I had to let her go, as I did with my oldest daughter years earlier.
Funny, but my son who has a strong resemblance to me is who I have a relationship with, though a distant one at times. He has absolutely no relationship with his mom.
If your youngest daughter has her mother’s genes, there’s not much you can do. She may come around when she matures and want to make contact with you. At least that’s what my friends tell me about my youngest. But after seven years of not seeing or speaking with her, I have my doubts.
It’s a very painful place to be in, yet you can numb the pain by letting go and just keeping the door open for her.
Hold yourself together so you can be there if she changes.
=== FOR ALL =====
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April 9th, 2013 at 21:47
Thanks, Larry. I can’t say I’m ready to give up on my youngest. One of the advantages we have today, over the 90s, is there are so many ways to communicate. Not to mention I can enlist the help of my other children to reach her. I’ll try to update you on my successes and failures so that others in a similar position may be helped.
April 9th, 2013 at 23:26
I wish I knew more to say.
Since we are in similar situations, I’ll share what I do with my son. I do not want to alienate him if he feels pressure to get involved. I believe that if she does come around someday, it’ll be because my son doesn’t continually bring up the family curse. Until then, I honor and respect the relationship with my son, so he will naturally be positive about me. Of course, this is only my hope. Be very careful, as walk on thin ice, if you try to get in touch with her as she gets older.
The one and only time I tried to see my youngest daughter, when she was just legally an adult, she called 911. I was given a criminal trespass warning (meaning I could get arrested if I went back to where she lives), and even though the cops were compassionate of my situation with her, they warned me that if I did try to contact her again, I could be hit with stalking charges.
It’s not easy to win, that’s why I leave the door open, but have moved on.
April 29th, 2013 at 21:15
It is a death sentence to dance with a sociopath.
What too many people can’t believe is that the atrocities they are capable of committing and the ease, almost joy, with which they commit them is just another days work, job well done, in their minds. What can be more destructive than to deprive a child of his/her loving parent while also believing and hurting over the lies they were told — told in such a clever way that it precludes any chance of checking the validity of the lies.
And then, for the parent whose life it is to love their children. There is no worse pain than to be deprived of that, and on top of it, be hated by your children for nothing more than being kind and trusting to a stranger who turned out to be evil, and is still influencing your family and friends to the otherwise. It is absolutely an occurence with no hope, as far as I see it. Suicide would be the only way out if I were the victim.
I hope no one would try to stop me, especially someone who knows nothing about the dangers of sociopaths. They are sexy, sweet, intuitive, your best friend within an hour of meeting, and quickly become your spouse and parent of your child, and eventually the user of everything you had at your disposal. Leaving you in shame, dispair, apathy, self-loathing and completely empty except for the pain. The worst part of this is that it can’t even be written off as sensationalism. It’s the truth.
I think twice whenever anyone assassinates another’s character, simply because people of honest and true emotion don’t do that.
April 30th, 2013 at 10:03
ATG,
Taking your own life is what will make your sociopath smile. Don’t give them any reason for feeling victorious. I know what it feels like to be in that place, as it feels things fill never get better, but they will. It just takes some effort on your part to move on and away from the evil. Remember this …
One of the happiest moments ever is when you feel the courage to let go of what you can’t change.
That means move on and survive. The pain will subside.
April 30th, 2013 at 18:05
Just happend to come upon this site and caught my eye and put a knot in my stomach to read about my boyfriend who I have been with for 8 years and is confused, tired, frustrated, depressed, scared