Updated: 2011 Aug 31


Below are the traits most commonly attributed to a sociopath’s target. Every person is inherently different, and that includes each target and the traits that are most pronounced in the individual. An individual would definitely not need any of these traits to be preyed upon.

This is not an attempt to diagnose anyone.

  • Shyness
  • Difficulty communicating
  • A lack of self confidence
  • Wanting to please
  • A belief that if you love enough the person will change
  • A belief that if you love enough the relationship will succeed
  • Difficulty establishing and maintaining boundaries
  • Not being able to say no
  • Being easily influenced by others
  • Wanting to be rescued from your life situation
  • Wanting to rescue others from their distress
  • Being over nurturing particularly when not asked
  • Feelings of shame and self doubt
  • Low self-esteem
  • A lack of memories about childhood or periods of adulthood
  • A lack of motivation from within and being motivated by others

AFTER: SYMPTOMS of a Relentlessly Abused VICTIM

This is a very accurate list of symptoms experienced by someone who has had their psyche brutally victimized by a sociopath. With that said, this list is not all-inclusive, nor is it intended to be part of any diagnostic function, whatsoever. These symptoms can also be triggered by many other conditions or events.

The source of this data is from ongoing research, but the majority of the data is derived and confirmed from personal experience … the key word being “majority”  There are some symptoms listed here that I have not experienced at all, though they have been mentioned enough for me to accept them as potentially common.

If you, or someone you know, has experienced even a few of these symptoms, seek professional help. Keep in mind, though, that not all “help” is equal. If the professional you choose does not seem to relate to your needs as you would expect or desire, keep looking.

  • Emotional paralysis
  • PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder)
  • Suicidal thoughts or actions (indirect homicide)
  • Loss of interest in life
  • Loss of energy
  • Insomnia
  • Anxiety
  • Depression or Severe Depression
  • Numbing of feelings
  • Disinterest in having a relationship
  • Panic attacks
  • Irritability
  • Increased anxiety from being alone
  • Increased anxiety from being in crowds
  • Mood swings

Source: [confirmed by personal experience (50+ years)]


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  1. Christine,

    Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. I’m pretty-much behind on everything.

    A fellow commenter wrote a valuable comment which I think may help you, as well as anyone with a sociopath problem. You can find it here.

    I’m a little on the fence about the genetic disposition since I’ve traced it to four generations on my paternal side, and my own children. Their mother had a psychological evaluation, and it frightened me when I read it. So it runs in her family and mine. My kids were doomed. I don’t know why I wasn’t as my siblings display a good many of the traits, enough for me to consider them sociopathic, as was my dad and his mother.

    I don’t know what to tell you other than to increase your knowledge about them so you can control future situations. You probably feel like this is a country of liars, but the majority are not, but those who are have become very skilled at it. You’ve moved a lot, but all I can say is try it one more time and memorize Emma’s technique.

    You must become able to identify a socioapth before they begin to target you. And with some research, and using Dr. Hare’s PCL-R list (Hare Psychopathy Checklist) to help weed out those who will cause you harm.

  2. Sharon,

    Sorry about the delay in getting back to you.

    Your mom sounds psychotic, as well as a very deviant psychopath. The first time I began to read your story, I had to stop when I got to what she did to cats. I’m an animal lover, and it truly stunned me.

    You need to move ahead in life as if your mom is already gone. You still seem concerned about her, and that is what she wants. She still holds some control over you. You must let go and move on. You will not regret it, as what your primary task now is you recovering from her torment. If I were you, I would seek therapy from a professional. They will help you let go. Life is too short to permit someone to ruin it for you.

  3. I guess you could say I am ‘in withdrawal’ from a damaging sociopathic relationship with my sister whom I have loved so dearly for all my life… until her ‘mask’ slipped during a very rocky family turmoil, which only occurred recently. But I have cut off ties with her. Wish I had found this site sooner because so much what everyone writes is true. The sociopath is a very proficient manipulator. I would like to add a bit of advice myself. Like Larry and others have said, best to just part ways with the sociopath. They will feed off of your kindness like a vampire & spit you out and damage your reputation, etc. if they do not get their way. But this is very important, you really should (as others have suggested too) in my words, ‘bow out gracefully ‘ from the bad relationship. Gracefully being the key word. Do it with the least amount of fanfare and drama. Just like I said, ‘bow out gracefully’… the less they realize you are distancing yourself (which will become apparent eventually) the less YOU will suffer.

    Another point I found on another website how to deal with them (which I wish I found this out sooner too, so I am giving some of you an advantage… I hope) Here is what I found: that is that the person living life as a sociopath, is far more afraid of YOU then you could ever be of him. (because you might or can reveal, discover his true self, which is the really his empty self) But, tread softly because once they know you can see right through them, they will turn on you.

    That is when you will really be hurt. But here is another insight, you (your heart and conscience) are not detectable by any of the 5 senses of the body.

    Sociopaths do not have an inner compass (or it is/was suppressed) like most normal people do. They rely on others for feedback and ‘how to act normal’. They do this by observation of others. Observation only.

    Facial expressions and actions, ie: crying when a loved one dies. They see others cry, so they know that is ‘how they should feel’. This should also tell you how easy the sociopath is to manipulate in reverse.

    The following actually happened to me several years ago….

    My sister and I talking during a very emotional moment in both of our lives, talking. Not yelling at each other, not arguing. Talking. She basically asked me a question, which at the time, was ‘very inappropriate’. I did not respond, because I was basically surprised that she had even asked it. I noticed her looking at me a way she never looked at me before. I even remember thinking to myself at that time… ‘she is looking at me trying to figure out what I am thinking’. It was a strange look, like I said, I had never seen it before. At the time, I actually felt sorry for her, because in a way, it was pitiful. I think I sensed her desperation. Read on about the desperation I sensed.

    Here is what she was doing:

    In a live play interaction where you are not letting what YOU are really thinking be visible at all through your body, you can literally watch one desperately “scan” your face, your eyes, your body language; you can watch him scan through his “experience” of you and other people trying to come up with a GUESS as to what is going on; you can watch him feedback to you “right words” that he has heard you say and watch ‘him carefully checking’ to see if it gets the right reaction.
    They are that dependant on exterior things.

    So, when you are dealing with one, if you throw on “x” expression, and begin emanating (feeling) “X” emotion, (while neither is not what you really think or feel) they will fall like a ton of bricks for it.


    Because they can not look at YOU (what you are really feeling).

    —Please do not interpret this to mean you should provoke or antagonize the sociopath. Quite the contrary is true with sociopaths. Do not stir the pot !!

    I took that from another site, my interpretation, is not to give any clues as to how you really feel. Picture the Mona Lisa. Or you have heard the expression ‘poker face’. Do not reveal your true self to them either. (but don’t become a liar) You are the one with the heart, the conscience, the moral compass.

    Which is why I chose ‘to thine own self be true’ for my name. I followed my heart. Get away from the sociopath/s, because they will only drag you down, and suck the life out of you like a vampire, & when they are done with you…. well you know.

    Lastly, strange as it may sound, I still love my (estranged from) sociopath, tormenter. I know she is mentally ill, but there is nothing I can do for her. I have many (not all) traits of the -victim- described at the beginning of this post. Especially this trait: A belief that if you love enough the person will change. If anyone out there thinks that might help, you are wrong. In my case, I think I actually made them worse, by being supportive to them in ways I now regret. I had to separate for my own survival.

    Lastly, like others wrote too, I feel I am at a more peaceful time in my life since avoiding this person as much as possible.

  4. to thine own self be true, I agree. I wish I found this site sooner too.

    A sociopath in the family has had repeated explosive episodes interspersed with periods of extreme niceness. Her ‘mask’ also came off and she became completely unhinged over a misunderstanding with an immediate family member. She shared her anger and tried to get disciples with other members of our extended family.

    The sociopath will observe you to find a weak spot and use calculated compliments to win your favor. If you choose to help the sociopath, there is no end in sight because of their unrealistic goals.

    Any compliments or gifts will be used as ammunition against you. For example, “Sister Kathy opening her home to her bullied nephew.” Then Kathy turning the family on the “bad ungrateful father.”

    Like to thine own self be true stated, if you can gracefully distance yourself from the sociopath in the family, it’s healthy for both of you. They won’t loose sleep over the loss of your relationship. You were a means to achieve their goal.

    You won’t lose sleep either, because there will be less unnecessary drama.

    The sociopath is not an object, but a person with a mental illness. They need help, but for your sake, from someone else.

  5. True Colors,

    You certainly read through my situation well. Thankfully, my son and I have moved way beyond her and are doing relatively well. I say relatively because since he didn’t go along with her, he’s been banished from the family just as I have. He’s now studying at a university and would like to eventually get a doctorate. Smart and level-headed young man.

    I’m glad you found this site, too. A sociopath in one’s life is bad enough, but in the same family is much more personal. Too bad the rest of my family is so shallow. It’s their loss.

    Thanks for visiting.

  6. Right after I added my comment just above, I scrolled to the top of the page, re-read all the traits, then read the first comment. Then the second. Then the third.

    Even though I read each comment when it was submitted, I didn’t stop reading them until I read them all again, this time in context.

    Thank you all. What a powerful, enlightening thread.

  7. I am so happy to have found this site.

    I fell victim to a man in a corporate media position when I volunteered for the company. Within a few hours of briefly speaking with me, he had located my e-mail address and communicated with me. (He was then 52; I was then 26). Over the years, the communication continued under the “guise” of a business friendship.

    There were suggestions about May-December romances; I laughed them off, never dreaming he was serious. When lingerie was shipped to my home, I threw a fit and blocked the guy. I, not knowing any better, turned him into his boss for messages of perversion typed while he was at work.

    After his boss spoke with him, he began stalking me, researching me, etc., despite being told to leave me alone. When HR at the company was brought onto the scene for the harassment, coerciveness, etc. I had experienced, he was able to convince everyone in the office — including those that had initially lobbied to help me — that I was crazy.

    I am blacklisted; he got a promotion and has harassed me through mutual friends (telling them that “he loves working for the company because there are so few managers he could get away with murder).

    Totally toxic situation and environment. But, after a year in therapy, I am beginning to find strength again. I know this was not my fault.

  8. I have many of the victim personality traits described above, and some of the traits associated with the aftermath as well.

    My husband has – at long last – believed what I say, but he still thinks what happened to me is just ‘down to human nature,’ as he puts it.

    We have yet to move away, which may solve the problem. Then I might be able to get some freedom back. But being the kind of person I am (trusting, a little naive), how I can I be sure it won’t happen again?

    Psychopaths are predators, they can home in on a potential target like bees to a honeypot.

    My only hope of a ‘normal’ life is to move and then to move again if necessary.

    It’s the disciples of this beast – they are the main problem. Psychopaths are not fully human, they display anything but the normal traits of human nature.

    I will move a long way away in due course, that is my long-term goal, but at the moment it’s not practical. All I can do is try to keep to myself as much as possible. Sounds sad I know, but minimizing contact with other local people is the best option at present. It does seem to work at least.

  9. @ Jill

    Talk therapy with a knowledgeable, compassionate therapist can likely help immensely … I say likely since I’ve never found one that wants to talk about it. A good psychiatrist can help, too, with the right meds for you. Depression is common. Antidepressants and a great therapist should be able to do you wonders.

  10. @Susan

    I think most of us can candidly say that we have many of the traits, before and after. In general they are good traits but the ones that evil people take advantage of.

    You are correct that it is up to you to get these predators out of your life, and that often means move. Move far enough, make new friends, and pick up life where you left off, only stronger and wiser. The pain does slowly go away.

  11. On the up side …

    I found this info and it give me peace, a peace I want to share!

    Healthy narcissism is mature, it’s a balanced love of oneself coupled with a stable sense of self-worth and self-esteem. Healthy narcissism implies knowledge of one’s boundaries and a proportionate and realistic appraisal of one’s achievements and traits.

    Pathological narcissism is wrongly described as too much healthy narcissism (or too much self-esteem). These are two absolutely unrelated phenomena which, regrettably, came to bear the same title. Confusing pathological narcissism with self- esteem betrays a fundamental ignorance of both.

    Pathological narcissism involves an impaired, dysfunctional, immature (True) Self coupled with a compensatory fiction (the False Self). The sick narcissist’s sense of self-worth and self-esteem derive entirely from audience feedback. The narcissist has no self-esteem or self-worth of his own (no such ego functions). In the absence of observers, the narcissist shrivels to non-existence and feels dead. Hence the narcissist’s preying habits in his constant pursuit of Narcissistic Supply. Pathological narcissism is an addictive behavior.

    Still, dysfunctions are reactions to abnormal environments and situations (e.g., abuse, trauma, smothering, etc.).

    Paradoxically, his dysfunction allows the narcissist to function. It compensates for lacks and deficiencies by exaggerating tendencies and traits. It is like the tactile sense of a blind person. In short: pathological narcissism is a result of over-sensitivity, the repression of overwhelming memories and experiences, and the suppression of inordinately strong negative feelings (e.g., hurt, envy, anger, or humiliation).

    That the narcissist functions at all – is because of his pathology and thanks to it. The alternative is complete decompensation and disintegration.

    In time, the narcissist learns how to leverage his pathology, how to use it to his advantage, how to deploy it in order to maximize benefits and utilities – in other words, how to transform his curse into a blessing.

    Narcissists are obsessed by delusions of fantastic grandeur and superiority. As a result they are very competitive. They are strongly compelled – where others are merely motivated. They are driven, relentless, tireless, and ruthless. They often make it to the top. But even when they do not – they strive and fight and learn and climb and create and think and devise and design and conspire. Faced with a challenge – they are likely to do better than non-narcissists.

    Yet, we often find that narcissists abandon their efforts in mid-stream, give up, vanish, lose interest, devalue former pursuits, fail, or slump. Why is that?

    Narcissists are prone to self-defeating and self-destructive behaviors.

    The Self-Punishing, Guilt-Purging Behaviors

    These are intended to inflict punishment on the narcissist and thus instantly relieve him of his overwhelming anxiety.

    This is very reminiscent of a compulsive-ritualistic behavior. The narcissist feels guilty. It could be an “ancient” guilt, a “sexual” guilt (Freud), or a “social” guilt. In early life, the narcissist internalized and introjected the voices of meaningful and authoritative others – parents, role models, peers – that consistently and convincingly judged him to be no good, blameworthy, deserving of punishment or retaliation, or corrupt.

    This article appears in the book, “Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited”

    The narcissist’s life is thus transformed into an on-going trial. The constancy of this trial, the never adjourning tribunal is the punishment. It is a Kafkaesque “trial”: meaningless, undecipherable, never-ending, leading to no verdict, subject to mysterious and fluid laws and presided over by capricious judges.

    Such a narcissist masochistically frustrates his deepest desires and drives, obstructs his own efforts, alienates his friends and sponsors, provokes figures in authority to punish, demote, or ignore him, actively seeks and solicits disappointment, failure, or mistreatment and relishes them, incites anger or rejection, bypasses or rejects opportunities, or engages in excessive self-sacrifice.

    In their book “Personality Disorders in Modern Life”, Theodore Millon and Roger Davis, describe the diagnosis of “Masochistic or Self-Defeating Personality Disorder”, found in the appendix of the DSM III-R but excluded from the DSM IV. While the narcissist is rarely a full-fledged masochist, many a narcissist exhibit some of the traits of this personality disorder.

    The Extracting Behaviors

    People with Personality Disorders (PDs) are very afraid of real, mature, intimacy. Intimacy is formed not only within a couple, but also in a workplace, in a neighborhood, with friends, while collaborating on a project. Intimacy is another word for emotional involvement, which is the result of interactions in constant and predictable (safe) propinquity.

    PDs interpret intimacy as counter-dependence, emotional strangulation, the snuffing of freedom, a kind of death in installments. They are terrorized by it. To avoid it, their self-destructive and self-defeating acts are intended to dismantle the very foundation of a successful relationship, a career, a project, or a friendship. Narcissists feel elated and relieved after they unshackle these “chains”. They feel they broke a siege, that they are liberated, free at last.

    We are all, to some degree, inertial, afraid of new situations, new opportunities, new challenges, new circumstances and new demands. Being healthy, being successful, getting married, becoming a mother, or someone’s boss – often entail abrupt breaks with the past. Some self-defeating behaviors are intended to preserve the past, to restore it, to protect it from the winds of change, to self-deceptively skirt promising opportunities while seeming to embrace them.

    Moreover, to the narcissist, a challenge, or even a guaranteed eventual triumph, are meaningless in the absence of onlookers. The narcissist needs an audience to applaud, affirm, recoil, approve, admire, adore, fear, or even detest him. He craves the attention and depends on the Narcissistic Supply only others can provide. The narcissist derives sustenance only from the outside – his emotional innards are hollow and moribund.

    The narcissist’s enhanced performance is predicated on the existence of a challenge (real or imaginary) and of an audience. Baumeister usefully re-affirmed this linkage, known to theoreticians since Freud.

    The Narcissist as a Failure and a Loser

    Three traits conspire to render the narcissist a failure and a loser: his sense of entitlement, his haughtiness and innate conviction of his own superiority, and his aversion (hatred) to routine.

    The narcissist’s sense of entitlement encourages his indolence. He firmly believes that he should be spoon-fed and that accomplishments and honors should be handed to him on a silver platter, without any commensurate effort on his part. His mere existence justifies such exceptional treatment. Many narcissists are under-qualified and lack skills because they can’t be bothered with the minutia of obtaining an academic degree, professional training, or exams.

    The narcissist’s arrogance and belief that he is superior to others, whom he typically holds in contempt – in other words: the narcissist’s grandiose fantasies – hamper his ability to function in society. The cumulative outcomes of this social dysfunction gradually transform him into a recluse and an outcast. He is shunned by colleagues, employers, neighbors, erstwhile friends, and, finally, even by long-suffering family members who tire of his tirades and rants.

    Unable to work in a team, to compromise, to give credit where due, and to strive towards long-term goals, the narcissist – skilled and gifted as he may be – finds himself unemployed and unemployable, his bad reputation preceding him.

    Even when offered a job or a business opportunity, the narcissist recoils, bolts, and obstructs each and every stage of the negotiations or the transaction.

    But this passive-aggressive (negativistic and masochistic) conduct has nothing to do with the narcissist’s aforementioned indolence. The narcissist is not afraid of some forms of hard work. He invests inordinate amounts of energy, forethought, planning, zest, and sweat in securing narcissistic supply, for instance.

    The narcissist’s sabotage of new employment or business prospects is owing to his abhorrence of routine. Narcissists feel trapped, shackled, and enslaved by the quotidian, by the repetitive tasks that are inevitably involved in fulfilling one’s assignments. They hate the methodical, step-by-step, long-term, approach. Possessed of magical thinking, they’d rather wait for miracles to happen. Jobs, business deals, and teamwork require perseverance and tolerance of boredom which the narcissist sorely lacks.

    Life forces most narcissists into the hard slog of a steady job (or succession of jobs). Such “unfortunate” narcissists, coerced into a framework they resent, are likely to act out and erupt in a series of self-destructive and self-defeating acts (see above).

    But there are other narcissists, the “luckier” ones, those who can afford not to work. They laze about, indulge themselves in a variety of idle and trivial pursuits, seek entertainment and thrills wherever and whenever they can, and while their lives away, at once content and bitter: content with their lifestyle and the minimum demands it imposes on them and bitter because they haven’t achieved more, they haven’t reached the pinnacle or their profession, they haven’t become as rich or famous or powerful as they deserve to be.

    I can not believe how completey they have described my sibling!

  12. I can’t read your post just yet as I’m trying to finish a job. But I should share that my sociopathic brother left me a voice mail on my new phone number, which I only told my aunt.

    My aunt was the only family member who would speak with me. Last summer, I spent a few days in a hospital for a physical ailment. My aunt called every day, then she said she wanted to tell my brother that I was in the hospital.

    I told her I couldn’t tell her what to do, but I highly suggested she keep him out of it. She told him anyway, he called my most evil sister, who than called my aunt. The next time I spoke with my aunt she told me she spoke with my sister, sounded very cold and told me she couldn’t speak with me any more.

    I tried again a few weeks later, and she hung up on me.

    This past holiday season and my subsequent birthday, I received no cards from my aunt, the first time in my life. My aunt didd tell me when we were speaking that my evil sister told her to take me out of her will. She said she wouldn’t then, but I don’t know about now.

    Within the past month, I sent her a heart-felt letter trying to convince her that she has been totally lied to, but I received no response.

    The VM message from my brother stated he got my new phone number from my aunt, who said she’d keep it confidential. My brother called to ask me for my address. I replied with an email to him and said, “I’ve had the same address for over the past 20 years. Why do you ask?”

    He never replied. They never quite leave you alone.

  13. Larry: So sorry to hear your aunt has been taken in. I never quite understand how they (sociopaths) manage to do it. It’s one thing to lie to someone about somebody else, another thing to take someone’s mind and attitude over completely.
    It is something most of us couldn’t do, even if we did lie about someone.
    It’s still a mystery to me, and I have seen this happen with people who I thought were, or could, be friends, aquaintances etc.
    Just HOW do they actually do it? That;s my question.

  14. Thank you Susan. My aunt is in her 80s, and just thinks the world of my sister. Hence, she would never question her. Our society is *filled* with very shallow people — they want to be part of a group.

  15. Hello Larry, despite what happened, I hope you could enjoy the Easter. Yep you are certainly right, people want to be part of a group. It’s all about group mentality and group conformity.
    Did you ever see that film, the second part of the Omen trilogy, ‘Damien?’ Most people probably have seen it at some time.
    If ever there was a near accurate portrayal of a psychopath and his followers, that film surely makes the grade.

  16. Hi Larry, I read your post of Apr 1 and I understand what you are going through. I can see that the remaining fragments of family for you, are being eroded by the influences of evil. It just boggles my mind how these people (sociopaths/narcissists…whatever they are) can control others.

    Some of my very own family has repudiated me also, based on nothing more than lies and meddling gossip. I know the feeling. It is very difficult to deal with (lies, gossip) and the sociopath knows how difficult it is. It is hard to disprove a negative (the lies) and even harder when someone will not even speak with you. Divide and conquer. (like others have mentioned)

    Larry, no doubt in my mind that your Aunt innocently shared the letter with one of your siblings. Or was coerced into doing so. I think they also indoctrinated your Aunt so much to believe that you are a liar and that any communication from you would most likely be more lies. Also, that your Aunt should inform them (brother & sister) of any communication from you. Sounds familiar, very much like what Kathy did with your Mom. Except that your Mom did not succumb to the ‘persuasive’ actions. I did read your post from Jan 2012 ‘The Kidnapping of a Parent’ – there was some very insidious and malicious persuasion going on there.

    I call these kind of people tyrants. They are so controlling & power hungry it is just disgusting. These people are so hollow inside they need a ‘following’ to support them. To fill the empty void within themselves. They do prey on the kind hearted. When they succeed (through misrepresentaion) in gaining support from your aquantainces, they feel they have somehow defeated you which builds their low self esteem.

    I wrote about my sociopathic tormenter in February (see: to thine own self be true). Like many tormentors, they can be family. Something I didn’t mention before, it is a small thing, but I think it shows the ‘making of a sociopath in its early stage’. I would like to point out, I remember when I was a teenager my sibling literally ‘stealing my friends’ from me. She literally would weasel her way into the friendship I had, she would want to be friends with my friends. When I was a teenager, I didn’t think much of this, I just remember it ‘not feeling right’. Now I know why it just ‘didn’t feel right’. She was honing & testing her sociopathic ‘divide & conquer’ skills very early on.

    I have read some of Blacksheep’s postings as well and I can identify with so much of what she writes too. I must quote something she wrote too, because I could have easily have written it ‘word for word’ myself: “My problem for years was that I was pure of heart and gave a damn and thought that because my siblings and I were raised by the same parents in the same house that they were also pure of heart and gave a damn too. Oh how sorry and wrong I’ve been every since that day I uncovered the forgery.”

    I never uncovered a forgery in my family, but there was so much ‘sociopathic’ behaivor around me, it was a ‘mega dose of reality’ when it all hit me like a ton of bricks. I still cry about it.

    Wish I would have kept such good records as Blacksheep did, as I was so naive about my siblings. But for me it is too late for record keeping and for others going through these types of family problems right now, please start record keeping. Also, if possible when you are visiting a parent – try to have someone go with you to visit them. You might need another person to corroborate what you say your parents wishes are or were, or how they feel about a sibling. Even if their is a legally bound, written will or trust. The sociopath will figure out a way to deny that is exactly what your parents wishes are. One way or another and whatever it takes is the sociopath’s motto. They will stop at nothing to get what they want. Nothing.

    Susan writes, “I wonder how do they do it?” My answer for Susan: It is easy for them, it truly is the essence of the word: heartless. They don’t have a heart. Visualize an empty black box residing inside thier chest. So much I am finding here are exactly how my tormenter operated, I want to reiterate what others have written…

    From Larry’s page: “Audio: A sociopath & disciple make their plans” an excerpt Larry wrote under “how character assassination spreads” he writes “Julie has to keep her credibility, so she has to stick to her lies … she continued it to the present.” Same experience with my T ~ she will live her lie/s until her last breath. (T is short for Tormenter)
    He also writes under: “The sociopath will not lose” – “A sociopath’s goal is to protect their public persona, protect their real personality from being exposed, and nothing will get in their way.” Same experience with my T. I wonder if Larry’s T and my T went to the same school; U of S (University of Sociopaths)

  17. Hi Anne,

    Thank you for sharing so much. As for my aunt, she is very simple-minded (80+ years), and it probably did not take much scheming on my sister’s part to completely turn her against me.

    My aunt has never missed sending me a holiday card or a birthday card, until this past holiday and my recent birthday. Whatever she was made to believe had to be very sinister and horrible. I wrote a compassionate letter to her, offering to prove my innocence on anything she was told, but she did not reply. Instead she gave my brother my private phone number that I asked her not to share.

    He called and left a voicemail asking me what my address is. I wrote an email back and said, “I live in the same place I have for the past 20+ years. Why do you ask?” He didn’t reply. I wouldn’t have responded to him but he is the executor of my deceased parents’ Trust.

    Blacksheep has written some very profound comments. She has gone through the very worst of it. I would bet that many people here have felt emotional pain and anxiety that most people could never understand. I know I can’t describe the pain I’ve felt to others, so I don’t try anymore. I’m luckily on the opposite side of the country that my first family, but I believe my sister, Kathy, and ex-wife, Julie, still stay in touch.

    My son has it almost as bad as I do. My first family has banished him similar to me, but his sisters do communicate with him. His mom has tried to but my son will have nothing to do with her. I don’t ask what my daughters say about me anymore, since the last time I asked my son, a few years back, he replied, “Dad, you don’t want to know.” He knows all to well the pain I go through.

  18. Thanks for the before & after list, Larry. Whilst it’s not a given that all or any of those traits apply, it’s still a fascinatingly applicable list in my case.

    Before marrying my sociopath, I was an independent, strong, confident, successful, smart, outgoing, funny, organised, slim, pretty & a take-no-shit-go-getter. I lived a big life, I had many friends, close family ties and knew what I wanted out of life.

    But I also had a strong desire to please others. This is the key thing that tripped me up (there were a few others on the victim trait list also, but pleasing others was key to my situation).

    Then I married him. In less than 4 yrs I was reduced to a constantly crying, depressed, suicidal, dependent, unemployed, overweight woman with no idea which was was up. My confidence was gone, my career was gone, he isolated me & I had no family, no friends, no support. I had nothing.

    There were hundreds of last straws, but taking away whatever shred of pride & dignity I had left by sadistically extracting his pound of flesh on me in the bedroom in ways that make me feel sick to this day were the most humiliating last straws. I felt worthless. Used – like an experimental dolly. And he’d just get up & walk away or go to sleep like nothing had happened.

    He tried to undo me at every turn in his own special brand of pathological deviance. He messed with my once highly organised mind, lied to me, fabricated situations, he Gaslit me at every opportunity, accused me of doing things I’d never done, moved things around so I couldn’t find them, called me names, made me cry, humiliated me in front of others, swore at me & belittled for little or no reason.

    He made me believe if I loved him enough, everything would work out. He had me emotionally running in circles every waking minute trying to predict the unpredictable. His emotional and sexual violence knew no bounds. Neither did his ability to deny it all b/c of course, he denied doing anything to me.

    And yet – to his two friends (yes, he only had two) he was the bees knees. They believed him to be the best, most awesome guy on earth. After I left him, I am quite sure they (and his family) fell for whatever other lies he told them about me.

    To this day, I don’t understand why he wanted to dismember me (and by association – my life) in every possible way. I really don’t get it. I’ve read that it’s all about power, control and what a sociopath can get out of a person to further their own ambitions, satisfy their own needs, enhance their own profile, & etc. But that just doesn’t seem ‘meaningful’ enough to me.

    Clues can probably be found in his own upbringing. He was beaten by his single mother as a child & also beaten by his dad when he’d go to visit him. Oddly, he worshipped his dad, even tho his father treated him badly.

    How strange to worship a father who says to his only son, “There are only 3 types of women in the world. They’re either sluts, crazy or bitches.”

    Perhaps my ex sociopathic husband just hated women. A lot.

    And maybe, b/c I was married to him, he hated me most of all?

    I really don’t know. I probably never will.

  19. One thing I must also mention because it might help others who are living with a sociopath is that every time I retaliated, confronted him, fought back or questioned his know-it-all authority – my ex called me crazy.

    After drilling it in to my mind, then he’d tell his work colleagues, his family & his two friends that I was crazy. Mentally unstable. That I was violent. That he feared for his life in my presence. It was beyond absurd.

    This in addition to the fact he was also accusing me of spying on him, stealing from him, cheating on him and lying to him. To put this in perspective, he was also convinced that the Russians and the Chinese were trying to use his laptop as a spam spybot slave so that might give others an idea of the kind of wild things he was talking about.

    At one point, I was seeing a shrink in a bid to try to work out why my life was unravelling at lightning speed b/c I sure as hell couldn’t work it out. But, the ex used my visits to the shrink as ‘proof’ of my craziness. Sigh.

    Eventually I realised the only way he’d stop telling me (and everyone else – including the police and a mens’ shelter) that I was nuts & violent was if I stopped fighting back. So I did. I sucked it up & became a prescription medicated zombie.

    I tried to be invisible or at least as small as possible. I withdrew & tried to ensure neither of us were in the same room at the same time. When he slept at night, I stayed awake all night reading & watching movies. When he got up in the mornings, I’d go to bed. If he was home during the day, I went out & stayed out. I avoided him like the plague. If he was coming & going from the house, I hid from him in my office & found 1,000 things to do that kept me from interacting with him.

    He frightened me with his ability to twist everything I said around so I talked to him only when it was absolutely necessary. I wrote those conversations down to ensure I knew exactly what he said and what I said. I did this so I could refer to it later b/c he habitually denied he’d said those things or he switched his answer around so that it was the polar opposite of what he’d said earlier.

    But being invisible and writing down what he said (and what I said, incidentally) didn’t work either. I foolishly thought I was depriving the fire of fuel in the hope that the fire (his behaviour) would stop. But it didn’t.

    He’d have random outbursts & fits of temper. He’d suddenly buy a new car or a boat without telling me (we didn’t have any money b/c we’d both lost our jobs). Then he’d hide all the bills. It was almost as tho he was taking up the space that I’d left in my trying to be small…and he was filling that space with more & more outrageously weird behaviour with each passing day.

    It was not long after the acquisition of the boat that I fled the country to get away from him.

    I’ve written this in an attempt to try to show others that there is no way you can fight a sociopath. If you do, they will use your words & actions against you.

    There is no way you can ‘be small’ or invisible around a sociopath. They will also use that against you in whatever way they can.

    My advice is do not try either. Do not feed the fire (their behaviour) with oxygen b/c it will burn bigger & fiercer than you thought possible. Conversely, do not try to starve the fire of oxygen b/c the fire will create its own oxygen on which to feed. It will create its own crises & madness.

    You cannot extinguish the fire.
    The fire will never burn out.

    The only way you can survive the fire is by leaving it and seeking shelter elsewhere.

  20. Re; Anne and Larry,
    It always helps me to come back and read your posts, because despite everything, the pain never completely vanishes.
    I still ask these same old questions, knowing that I will probably be asking them on the last day of my life:
    How do they (sociopaths) manage to get people to completely believe their lies?
    How can people be almost completely taken over or ‘hypnotised’ by these creatures?
    It’s scary because if I was to try doing the same thing, I would probably be laughed out of the door.
    The pain from loss of family members is immense. I am so sorry to hear of it.
    However,I have certain beliefs of my own. I believe in the power of evil and that it can use certain people very easily for whatever reason.
    I don’t want to bring God into the picture but I believe there is a Higher Power of ultimate good, and all things will be brought to their resolution in the end.
    Psychopaths may only be ‘portals’ for evil; they do not have souls or hearts, just as Anne said. They may have no ultimate purpose other than their brief lives here on Earth! After that, nothing!

  21. Something weird sounding I recently realized, at least it makes complete sense to me…
    Odd as it may sound;
    Not only do
    liars know the Truth,
    or there could be no lie,
    Liars actually HAVE to pay attention to the Truth ALL THE TIME; (almost more than Truthful people who just live the Truth as best they can.)
    If liars did not constantly pay attention to the Truth, there could be no way to lie, as THE LIE IS ANYTHING BUT THE TRUTH, so liars know exactly what they are doing! They will eventually lose their conscience, however, because of the limitations of the human brain to remember more than five plus or minus two things at one time, so they forget who they are so to speak. This is also why they manipulate. I think the manipulation a are like “memory sticks”, to help the liars remember and sort out their lies, to “get around the limitations of the human brain’s capacity to remember”. I think liars often incorporate “worker bee liars”, again to help them remember their lies. The “memory sticks” are the manipulations, which are PATTERNS. Patterns are easier to remember than free form, creative, growing Truth that others just live in a world with. These patterns somehow end up the same non creative patterns, although sometimes amazingly complex, but non-creative, i.e. DESTRUCTIVE PATTERNS and BECAUSE THEY ARE PATTERNS THIS IS WHY PEOPLE OFTEN SAY THINGS LIKE, “are we married to the same man; my husband did the same exact thing to me”.

    Part 2.
    Let’s not even talk about Gaslighting, which my mother did to me from the time I could remember. Combine Gaslighting with a bad case of NPD, and you can either kill a person, or make them stronger and wanting to STAND UP FOR TRUTH. I am trying to be Strong and help people realize that when they see Thea negative patterns if behavior, they may want to remove themselves from the relationship and never get tricked into going back. My mother was a master at both so I got tricked for a good 59 years, blaming myself for her cruelty. I hope no one else will have to go through something anywhere near similar.
    So I might sound nuts, but when you go back and think about that “special” person’s behavior, some of what I have written might help one get away, before they become too damaged.
    All the very best to you all.

  22. After 42 years of trying to figure out what the hell drew me into one horrific relationship and situation after another with Narcs and Sociopaths, I was mostly there. And then today, I started reading a book called ‘The Scapegoat Complex’ and it is THE BEST THING I EVER DID. It not only shows you how you got set up by rotten parent(s), but how to really see the abusers for what they are and stop feeling guilty, etc. when we aren’t. I had read a lot on this subject before, but this book knocks it out of the park. I’m about to head into the section on how to recover, and just want to say that this is the thing I’ve read that has really helped me to get over my need to own their darkness, and to stop absorbing guilt, etc. I struggled with this for so long, even though I KNEW I wasn’t the bad guy. The author is Sylvia Brinton Perea, and if you know you still feel the way you were conditioned to feel and can’t stop even though you get that it’s messed up, I hope this book will help you as much as it helped me. Only good wishes to all of us, heaven and hell both know that we deserve it after what we’ve been through.

  23. Re; Artist.
    Interesting what you said there, but I found some of it a little difficult to understand.
    I do know that these people – ‘People of the Lie,’ as someone else has called them – know exactly what they are doing. The ringleader/s are not ignorant or stupid but actually very clever.
    That is what makes them so evil and so utterly dangerous.
    I was in the car with my hubby the other day – we were on our way home and just turned up our road.
    One of the local shop workers was walking down the road, and she looked right at me in the passenger seat, as if she straight away knew the car that I was sitting in.
    It was a very sly, un-trusting look. I realised that nothing will ever, ever change. These people will never change, never be any different with me. I am not welcome in their ‘community’ and that’s the end of it.
    My husband is battling an illness at the moment. One day when he is feeling better, I will take up the subject of moving away again.
    It is the only solution. I cannot walk around freely any more without looking over my shoulder; I cannot go shopping locally anymore; I cannot socialize locally or work locally. It is absolutely ridiculous. The lies have been spread to a lot of people. I need to get my life back.
    Well I have got it back in a sense, that I now do most things outside my locality, but I have to travel.
    This place I am in is no longer home. The neighbourhood has been decimated by this psycho (whoever they are). Getting away from them is the only solution.

  24. Re: Susan, post #124
    I live in a bitty little town for the first time in my life. Somehow i got blacklisted i think, but then again, maybe God is protecting me from them. Lots of times i pray that i will be invisible to these evil elements. Now, after about 1 and half yrs i started meeting some more local better people somehow. It turns out they also stay away from those ones who were giving me trouble, but for their own similar to mine reasons. I too shop 35 mi away.
    About those creepy people… I think they are probably liars and can tell that we “see right through them”. It must make them feel uncomfortable, even frightened. There are so many many big time liars all over the place now. Businesses usually train salespeople and customer service people to lie, so there will be more and more liars.
    I also look over my shoulder all the time but that is actually smart. I was being followed once on a kind of empty street on my way to a fabric wholesaler, and i looked over my shoulder and saw him about 100′ away at a certain pace, so i turned again when it seemed like the right amount of time, AND HE JUMPED A MILE! Most of these creeps are looking for someone with their guard down. I hope the creeps around you all go away and good people come to you.
    Oh, there was the funniest blog about “Nar Dar” how to tell if someone has NPD. They have a radar dish…so funny.
    Anyway, if you want to reread my previous post, it might make more sense a after reading a time or two because i am a visual person so when i try to explain something, i am thinking in pictures but having to use words to explain it. If i ever recover from what i have gone through, i want to teach people not to lie in my paintings. They will look at the paintings an say “that is garbage”, but a subliminal message will go in their mind which might make them think twice about lying.
    To me, the problems of NPD, and Gas lighters, Sociopaths etc., is lying. I don’t care what any PHD says, the key to these problems is so tiny and simple, it is lying. It all starts with lying. Excessive lying is bad for everyone. Lying is how these people lose their conscience, i am sure. Everyone is born with a conscience, we know Truth from lies, otherwise there could be no lie. I don’t know how else to word it.
    I wish everyone all the best.

  25. To the victims of sociopaths (count me as one): Read as much as you can. Educate yourself. Learn to identify sociopaths. Though normal people don’t like to admit it (we want to believe in goodness), sociopaths are everywhere. They are your political leaders, your corporate leaders, your financial leaders, your family, your friends, your teachers, your coworkers, your neighbors and your children.

    Successful sociopaths are not easily identifiable and are far more prevalent than unsuccessful sociopaths. Both the successful and unsuccessful sociopaths are like magnets to the uninformed and naïve. They seem so great at first. They suck you in and then destroy you physically, emotionally, financially, legally and spiritually. When there’s little left to take, they flush you like used toilet tissue.

    Our society regards the seemingly positive aspects of sociopaths highly, which is how they’ve moved into positions of power and trust in large numbers.

  26. A note to Finally Awake – Exactly, exactly my conclusions. They are everywhere, and the ‘uninitiated’ can’t absorb that truth – it’s too ugly for most to see. They entrench themselves in positions of power and prestige and they bleed goodness dry wherever they go, can call that goodness their own. They steal light that belongs to others. To talk about them openly is to put yourself in danger from the idealists whose minds cant handle the reality and from the sociopaths themselves.

  27. “Downsides, Upsides;
    Going Back for Love, Because of my Original Nature”
    A Poorly Written Story
    By Artist
    Copyright May 4, 2013
    All Rights Reserved

    A description by an Artist who grew up under the terrible influence of a severely NPD mother and brother who Gas lighted me the first 62.75 years of my life.
    Two footnotes: Yes, S. V., and others, the word “I” is in here a lot, but maybe one could try to understand that “I”, Artist, am trying to use a thousand words to describe pictures rather than pictures to describe a thousand words, because of my disabilities “I” brought about myself due to My Original Nature, “MON” for short.
    Additionally, the only reason this is copyrighted is so that no one will misconstrue it a a universal set of facts or suggestions of how anyone else should behave, or to depress anyone.

    “Downsides, Upsides;
    Going Back for Love, Because of My Original Nature”

    “My Original Nature”, “MON” for short, has proven both good and bad for me. Oddly it has made my life extremely difficult yet has somehow kept me alive way too long now, much to the dismay of quite a few people, I am sure.

    A Down Side to “MON” is that I kept “Going Back For Love”, “GBFL” for short. Not just to get love, but to give love. I really wanted both.
    Just this morning, I saw how “GBFL” is also an Up Side. The mechanism worked as follows:
    enumerable circumstances in my life, and not having the tiniest clue how to deal with them, has, evolved into huge feelings of loss, guilt, disorientation, confusion, heavy grief, PTSD, anger, depression, despair and withdrawal. Obviously all Down Sides.

    A Up Side of having been subjected to severe NPD and Gas Lighting all my life, is that I have developed, with unconscious practice, a strong habit of continually going back to the person performing the abuse and apologizing, asking for forgiveness. “GBFL”, used to be a Down Side, because it allowed the pattern of abuse to continue.

    That “GBFL”, behavior is now permanently ingrained in my mind and cannot be destroyed. Like a marathon runner keeps running races. One foot in front of the other. Now that I am bashed down to a pulp, I would like to give up and every time anyone displays behavior even remotely resembling what my family did to me, I was to run away, or lash out at them to get them out of my severely limited personal space, but I realize my reasons are to avoid further pain and may be nipping things too close to the bud. Sometimes that has the effect of making me like my NPD, Gas Lighting family, out of my own fear. Out of habit, however, up pops my “GBFL”.

    Now here is the Up Side of repeated negative patterns of behavior being used as hopefully positive behavior, added to a Search for Clarity and Truth; “GBFL” has become a permanent fixture of my personality, from years of practice but for other reasons. Now the “GBFL” can be used to reassess the situation, figure out if it was me or them, and if it really was me, I can apologize. I would rather mistakenly apologize even if it was them, because I do not want to hurt people. I do NOT want to become an NPD and/or Gas Lighter.

    Now I have been able to see that I can go back to “MON”, without suffering the loss of my own soul, even though it hurts badly to “GBFL” for me and don’t expect love anymore, I can “GBFL” for them and find a way to forgive them and love them, even the “them” that “they disappeared”, because they may not even know what they are doing. I can see now that I need to keep a good distance from them, but I hopefully will not conform to their behavior, no matter how lonely I may be.

    I would rather have “MON”, and continue living my life in solitude, every holiday, birthday etc., alone, alone, alone, than to lose my own self.

    All this has been very difficult to express.
    Thank you all.
    Wishing you all well.

  28. Larry –It’s heartening to read your posts and the posts of all that have contributed to this fine thread. There is no way to effectively articulate the deep pain that results from being victimized by a sociopath. You have to live through it to fully empathize. Nevertheless, I’m stunned by the strength and resilience of those that post here. Thanks to your words and the words of others found on this page, I find the gift of strength to move forward.

    I hope everyone here overcomes their pain and comes out far better and stronger as a result.

  29. Christine – I believe you are correct. Self-delusion is a powerful force. I know this because I have deluded myself one too many times. Always wanting to believe in the basic good of others…too often at my own expense. To face reality sometimes requires incredible hardship. I do not expect those that haven’t’ been through what I’ve been through to understand me. Most of the time, I’m glad they don’t. In places like this, we can share our experiences and gain strength. It is through our shared experiences that we are all here. Thank you for your posts.

  30. Larry,

    What turns socio-paths off?

    When do they leave? or move on to their next victim?

    What is the quickest way for any victim to – Accept or Admit that unfortunately Socio-path has entered their lives? Many of us spent years or months in denial, making excuses, ignoring, hoping and wishing away RED flags.

    Thank you for your invaluable insights.

    You have contributed priceless/amazing tips for people IN NEED.

  31. This is such a wonderful song.This song holds freedom, healing from pain and a peace that so many are searching for. It’s difficult to set down or surrender self, as sociopathy instills fear. There is One we can go to, there is One we can surrender to.

    “Seek and ye shall find” “and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” “be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion” (a liar trying to seem scary)”, walketh about, seeking whom he may DEVOUR” “Ye” (to sociopaths) “are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it” BUT “greater is He that is in me, than he that is in the world”!

    Does the Holy Bible (thousands of years old texts… that still survive) deal with sociopathy?

    A good start:

  32. Hello,

    I am grateful for your webpages and to read the comments too.

    I’m a man in my early forties. I’ve experienced a sociopathic father and the dysfunctionality of the resulting family dynamics for my whole life.

    From a very young age, I felt things were wrong; different from what i saw of other friend’s families.

    My father was physically and psychologically abusive for many years. My mother controlled to become a lifelong servant.

    I recognise all the observed traits that are listed, both for the victim and the abuser.

    I am a humane, friendly person. I had aptitude for quite a few things that could have got me a happy life. But I haven’t yet escaped the man or his continuing legacy, due to economic trap etc.

    So I am at this age an I’m a non-entity. No career, no home, no relationship, no real social network. And tired of this situation.

    In the past I suffered PTSD and anxiety problems. I am ok in crowds and happy alone also. I like people and care for the wellbeing of the world: kids, animals, plants, old folk, down & outs and so on.

    I just needed to post some words here – thankyou.

    I’ve lived away and had independence at times, in the past, but now, since the 2008 economic slump, I ended up staying with my parents – who are quite elderly, with health problems – and i’ve become stuck in a trap. Finances and self-autonomy eradicated to a point of having nowhere to go at the moment, yet having to endure moodswings and occasional threats of immediate homelessness. It’s a miserable existence and I’m very drained.

  33. Dear M.,

    I understand something about where you’re coming from, and I’m sorry you’ve had this in your life.
    I’m the same age as you, and was raised by my mother and older brother who are both psychopaths. My dad was a narcissist, who meant well most of the time, but was a complete disaster as a father.

    I’ve found myself feeling trapped in ways similar to you, although I have had to make it on my own b/c I went no-contact with my family 15 years ago. Anyway, here’s the thing. Their darkness lives inside our minds/souls, and convinces us that we are trapped, that we are meant to serve them, and do what they want. Our spirit belongs to God and with God. If you can find a way to live in your spirit, God is there, and can work in your life. Anyway, this is what I believe. I believe that when we live inside the fears and traps they created for us (mentally, emotionally, physically), we lose contact with what can help us.

    I know it’s no easy thing to live outside the fears and very real entrapment, but the more you can at least bring your mind to that place, and your heart, the more free you can become of the traps. Opportunities for some measure of liberation in the real world, I think, will come that way, though there’s no way to know how fast or what they’ll be like.

    This is just my going theory/belief/faith. Whatever you believe, I hope you can find your way to freedom and healthy security. I’m working to find the same things for myself, but I find that our society is essentially sociopathic in its structure. We’re set up to serve dominant systems, personalities, institutions, whatever, at our expense to their benefit.

    If you can find a way to make money while operating in the interstices of dominant systems, it might help you carve a path out of hell for yourself. Just don’t let anyone around you know what you’re doing if you figure out how to do it. One thought: Internet. There’s money to be made out there. Another thought is that everyone was born with a gift. There has to be a way for you to use yours, whatever it is, and you can let that guide you.

    I hope things get better for you soon. Also, if you’re at all into yoga or things like that, you might be able to live on an ashram, doing volunteer work/karmic service in exchange for low/no-cost living, until you get back on your feet. Yoga has helped me work some of the bad energies/memories/injuries out of my system.

    You probably already know this, but if you find ways to increase your strength and independence, do it quietly so that the predators don’t see it. If they see you gaining independence, that’s when they hit you hardest with whatever whammy they have at their disposal. Get strong secretly. Pool your resources secretly. You will get free and strong again.

  34. Dear M:
    I thought i was reading about myself when i read your recent post, but even though we are all a bit different by nature, we can see a pattern of how Sociopaths pick their targets, manipulate the target and others who may observe the trickery so the other does not realize the True story.
    I think sociopaths are very afraid of people who are
    Love life and nature,
    Enjoy Using the Brains God Gave Us,
    Have inner Strength (even though we don’t realize it. Inner strength to realize the S is not being Truthful…)
    Inner Truth,
    Want to use our abilities and minds for good,
    Maybe we are also Above Average intelligence and multitalented, but we may be a bit naive because who would believe there would be people out to destroy us just for being ourselves etc.

    The S is Scared of us.
    He is scared because we keep seeing the Truth.
    The S is scared of us because we are Stronger than him because Truth is Stronger than lies.
    Look how many lies it takes to cover up one Truth!
    The S must be constantly on edge because
    Every lie is actually Two lies. The Story the liar tells and the denial (lie) that the Truth is there. The S has to keep one eye on the Truth at all times, in order to be able to lie, so he is NOT mentally ill. It is intentional.

    The human brain can only remember Five ± Two things at one time (in general).
    Once the liar has told 3 lies (that is 6 things) he is beginning to exceed his brain’s capacity to remember.
    By 5 lies he has 10 things to remember; hence manipulation comes in, which is an aid to remember lies.
    (Yes this is a simplistic description in order to fit into the blog space.)

    So back to why we get drained and lose our joie de vivre, for M and others,
    i just realized yesterday that for me it is Primarily Due to Us Getting PTSD.
    I describe PTSD (and really most depression), AS A MASSIVE BRAIN OVERLOAD.
    Some people do not realize We can get PTSD from having a parent with NPD, who is Gaslighting us all our lives, and or a Sociopath parent, which are all somewhat interchangeable and or connected behaviors.

    PTSD is like a bomb with respect to its complexity and it can blow up making us just feel like wanting to die because of the massive brain overload.

    Since most therapists don’t understand PTSD in mid May I started to treat myself for PTSD which is working quite well.
    I am learning to dismantle that bomb by breaking it up into pieces to destroy the brain overload and to be able to examine the pieces separately to know that I am not insane or horrible.
    I wrote a list of 25 to 30 triggers.
    I categorized my triggers by headings such as NPD behaviors, gaslighting, rushing me, lying to me, changing my reality etc.
    When I feel that sense of being made small or that uncomfortable twinge when you know somebody is saying something that is not quite right,
    I start counting off on my left hand for example;
    NPD is my little finger
    gaslighting is my fourth finger
    rushing me is my third finger
    lying to me is my second finger etc.
    By having to look at my left hand it, takes my mind off the trigger, buys me some time and allows my brain to think for itself to sort out what is going on in the situation.

    On my right hand is my list of positive things:
    little finger; this won’t last this long this time,
    fourth finger; I will get through this,
    third finger; I am not crazy,
    second finger; it is them not me etc.
    It has only been two months since I have done this and clarity is coming in as to why today I have no desire to do my artwork that I trained all my life to do, I have to force myself to want to stay alive, I have no joy of living, I live completely alone with no living relatives on and on. (And no I did not kill all my relatives, he he.)

    This morning, as usual, I was a little afraid to get up because I thought I was going togo into another depression, but I noticed a tiny good feeling! I haven’t felt good for I don’t know how many years and I’m 63! (I am leaving out so much information about dangerous things that have happened to me in my life which by the Grace of God didn’t kill me, which were because of my family and compounded the PTSD.)

    So now I plan to go easy on myself, not get excited that I feel good for a few minutes, continue with counting these things off on my two hands.
    Thank God I have two hand’s and they’re right in front of me and I can see them quite easily and being half Greek I use my hands a lot to express myself.

    When I first started experimenting with this method which I call MY CUSTOMIZED LADDER
    TO KEEP ME AWAY FROM THAT BLACK SUCKING WHIRLPOOL CALLED PTSD, I was in a Walmart trying to return something. The man told me that the items were not on my receipt. (I only go into town every 30 days so I knew this could not be True so I felt like I was being Gaslighted I felt like he had NPD, I felt insane wondering “did I make another trip to town and didn’t even know it” etc.
    I looked at my hands and mentally counted the things off on my left hand to clarify and dismantle my brain overload. I kept my head down without looking at him and told him to get me somebody else. When I got somebody else she saw the items on my receipt and loudly so he could hear me, I stated to the bad man; “the items are right here on the receipt YOU MORON.” (I do not suggest you call anyone names like i did, but i was actually standing up for myself for the first time!)

    Next time I was going to Home Depot which is usually a wonderful experience for me there are many wonderful sales reps that know me there and have seen me crying in public because of my problems with my background and severe physical pain. There was a new nasty salesman there who was telling me that I did not have a receipt for a purchase I had made over the phone to the store and so
    I could not have the item. (I had called twice before leaving home to make sure it would be ready.) I felt that black whirlpool moving closer to me so I stuck my hands right in his face (I can do that because I’m half Greek! Yeah!) I put my right finger on my left little finger and I said PTSD then fourth finger; NPD, third finger; Gaslighting. I didn’t even know what I was ticking off but I knew they were the triggers on my left hand. As I was pointing them out I realized which trigger he was activating based on his comments to me. I then with my first finger on my left hand pointing to the little finger on my right hand stuck in his face again; this is not going to last very long, I am going to get over this, you are not going to bother me, you are not going to trigger my PTSD and cause me to go into a major depression.
    By then one of the managers who knew me well came up behind me chuckling because as it turned out everybody was having problems with this man when I thought it was just me. I turned back to the salesman but he had disappeared!

    It is a process but it is working.
    I tried to help the VA by phone, but a man in charge told me that I would never get over PTSD and that the triggers would never stop!!!! I told him I was just trying to give him information to help lessen the effects of PTSD. The man was very mean and rude so i said; “hey wait a minute, normally somebody like you would be triggering my PTSD so I think you have NPD and you need to read two books; Malignant Self Love by Sam Vaknin and Children of the Self Absorbed by Nina Brown.” Then I hung up on him (someone there had previously hung up on me) and I felt a little uncomfortable after the phone call but I didn’t going into a major 10 day depression unable to climb out of that black Whirlpool because I had built my own customized ladder to get myself out of that whirlpool!

    I do not recommend anyone act like me because i am unique like we all are. I am somewhat of a fighter. (That is how i got away from two bus drivers in mexico who abducted me, in less than 24 hours and a multitude of other awful things), but
    I truly hope that some portions of this very long post will help some of you, so that you don’t have to go through such long hell as I have because by now I’m 63.
    I am alive, however. Much to the dismay of many mean people.

    Things to watch for with sociopaths:
    when you just feel something’s not right feeling
    small feeling
    like someone chopped your legs off
    like they pulled the rug out from under you
    feeling like someone is rushing you…
    With these people you want to remove yourself from their environment quietly so they don’t attack you further; very much like what C said and what you will find Nina Brown saying in her book as well.

    Remember you are all
    Stronger and
    More Creative than these bad people.
    They seem to Mistake Kindness for Weakness But we are very strong even though we don’t realize it:
    That makes them angry
    Truth makes them angry
    Many things make them angry; naturally because they are exceeding the capacity of their human brain to remember more than 5+ or -2 things at one time, have to keep one eye on the Truth at all times in order to lie, and they are filling themselves with thick blackness they are trying to pass over to us.

    What a lot of work we make for these bad people; i feel sorry for them. God forgive them for me please and God is helping me to Forgive Them, now that they are gone. This way their blackness does not find a home in me.


  35. @Mr. M

    Your story sounds very similar to mine except I was able to stay away.

    Most counties have departments (such as the Department of Family and Children Services) that have many ways to help you out of your situation. You just need to be persistent since most of the departments are overloaded.

    Google “DFACS” along with your zip code and you’ll have a good list to begin with. Temporary housing is available, food stamps, job assistance, and many other services. It may feel as if you’re starting over, but get over that. You are just starting a new chapter in your life.

    Stick with it; you can do it.